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Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

theguardian.com

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Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#221

Post by jdietrich »

nafey wrote: post #164
jdietrich wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Instead, government could've imposed ban on the consumer products which are wrapped using plastic material. Almost 50% plastic come directly from such consumer products sold by all FMCG companies. Such plastic material which is used as a wrapper (e.g. mineral bottles, wrappers of chocolates, biscuits, wafers, tobacco, etc.) is often useless and people tend to throw it right away. Broadly speaking, that would be a te…

> It's a net win, because the environmental impact of wasted cucumbers is far greater than the environmental impact of a gram or two of polyethylene wrapping. Will need citation for that.

Producing a cucumber results in CO2 emissions of about 1kg (3.3kg CO2 per kg product, avg weight ~300g). Shrink-wrapping a cucumber increases the average shelf life from 9 days to 15 days in refrigerated conditions and from 2 days to 5 days in ambient conditions.

Producing a kilogram of polyethylene film packaging emits about 2.7kg of CO2. The wrapping on an average-sized cucumber weighs about 2g, producing an additional 5.4g of CO2 emissions and increasing the total carbon footprint of the cucumber by ~0.54%. About 12% of cucumbers delivered to US retailers go unsold due to damage, spoilage or other loss.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S146290110...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3550898/

http://www.wrap.org.uk/sites/files/wrap/Carbon_Methodology_-...

http://www.mdpi.com:8080/2077-0472/5/3/626/pdf

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#222

Post by titzer »

scotchmi_st wrote: post #207
state_less wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As long as plastics are disposed responsibly in ways that don't damage plants and animals, what's the issue? Please don't discount one of the biggest issues though. I've told folks their plastic bottle is about to blow away (overlooking lands end, right over the ocean). The person picks it up, walks a bit further up the trail and throw it in the bushes. I've had folks throw their cigarette butt on the side of the r…

You're referring to anecdotes. Maybe the sort of behaviour is widespread, but even if it is, you then need to prove it's having much of an impact on the environment, and even then it's a drop in the ocean compared with the damage done via climate change and water consumption. We need to get out of our parochial ideas about waste. Plastics are aesthetically bad, but other forces are quantitatively way worse.

> Plastics are aesthetically bad, but other forces are quantitatively way worse.

I don't agree with this line of reasoning. We have room for more than one priority, and solving the waste pipeline is ultimately one of logistics and political will, as well as elbow grease and the pluck to get out there and pick up some garbage.

I've seen whole gaggles of people walk past a bottle lying on the ground next to a trash can, and no one would stoop over and pick it up and put it in the trash. Humans have this disease on societal scales, and the oceans are taking hell because of it.

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#223

Post by thewhitetulip »

aryamaan wrote: post #91
thewhitetulip wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pray tell me how you found out that Bihar's alcohol ban has worked out? I was under the impression that there is a vibrant black market in Bihar too

Well, I didn't find any substantial reports about the consumption (or reduction in) of alcohol in Bihar after the prohibition after a courtesy look. And whatever numbers I did find- they were about the reduction in crimes- simply seemed juked and to lure the people.

Okay, are you relying on government reports? If you do then you'll be surprised to know that the ruling party thinks that Demonitization eradicated black money. They spent like 1k crore in such advertisements.

Banning things doesn't work, you can get _everything_ in the black market. Did you miss the news of a BJP leaders son who was found in broad daylight in a Gujarat Airport?

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#224

Post by thewhitetulip »

addicted wrote: post #97
thewhitetulip wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pray tell me how you found out that Bihar's alcohol ban has worked out? I was under the impression that there is a vibrant black market in Bihar too

The answer is a simple google search away. It’s worked out pretty well with all sorts of social indicators trending better. An alcohol ban doesn’t need to lead to 100% reduction to be deemed a success. In fact it almost certainly won’t. It just needs to make things reasonably better than they were before.

You clearly don't know India. In other countries your assumption could hold true, not here.

You can get anything as long as you have connections and the money

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#225

Post by pravinva »

okmokmz wrote: post #208
shripadk wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has nothing to do with trust. One terror attack and the employees and their families would be getting back at the management for lax security and having made the big mistake of trusting their lives with the company. Workplace violence is a thing and it's better for everyone to go through security checks than risk liability. You never know how, when or why someone snaps (however mentally stable s/he was during re…

I really hope this is sarcasm... You think it's appropriate for every employee to be searched before entering a facility because there might be a "terror attack"? How many IT workers are there in the country, how many attacks have occurred in IT offices, and how many attacks have been prevented by searching employees bags? Giving up personal liberties and freedoms out of unsubstantiated fears based on a few fringe ca…

It's like the TSA- Security theatre, not security that's being sold here

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#226

Post by saagarjha »

godelmachine wrote: post #147
nerdponx wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since I doubt there is actually a law against bringing plastic bags into certain buildings, it sounds like the security guard just misunderstands

In Mumbai, citizens seen to be carrying plastic bags are liable for fine of 5000 INR for first time offenders and up to 3 months prison time.

How do you enforce this? What if I just kept a year-old plastic bag around?

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#227

Post by bluesroo »

eesmith wrote: post #16
makecheck wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It needs to become fashionable to basically carry lots of reusable stuff with you. We “sort of” have this for coffee containers and shopping bags but it would be good if people could also always carry a metal fork, plate, cup, and even a reusable napkin at all times. It’s one of those things that would remain weird if only a few people did it but wouldn’t be weird if most people did. It would also require eating esta…

Why would that help? Let's take going to a salad bar or buffet. Many health rules say that only clean plates may be used. For example, from http://EzineArticles.com/1402314 : > There must be clean plates and other tableware at or adjacent to the buffet or salad bar and customers should be reminded, or notified if need be, that only clean tableware is to be used when returning to the buffet. Most restaurants are "set…

With enough pressure I could see a reusable-dishes-as-a-service type company. A restaurant could pay this service $x per month and the service would come daily to drop off clean containers and pick up used containers for cleaning and sterilization. Restaurants could have a deposit upon getting a meal, say $3. When you bring your containers back you get your $3 back (or $3 towards your next meal there?).

If multiple restaurants in your area used the same service, or if the dishes were standardized enough, then you could drop off your used dishes at multiple different places whenever you get take-out again.

Obviously this is "in an ideal world" thinking, but it seems like with enough economic pressure on the take-out industry it could start being feasible.

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#228

Post by chicob »

TylerE wrote: post #189
dd36 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cucumbers are more harmful than plastic?!? I stopped reading right there. One timely biodegrades, the other doesn’t. That’s the whole problem.

This is exactly the kind of tunnel vision that annoys me. Things take much more energy to PRODUCE than to dispose of. Agriculture is incredibly energy, land, and water intensive.

And plastic intensive as well.

A single plantation of 1 ha of olive trees in super high-density mode uses around 1700 PE cups, 1700 PVC shoot protectors and 2,5 km of PVC drip irrigation tubes, not to mention the tying.

Melon production also directly uses plastic, albeit temporarily. Greenhouses need repair and maintenance.

Also worth of mention all the herbicide/fungicide/insecticide plastic containers. Only these last have an actual though-of destination for recycling, which is mandatory. These have to be washed and made unusable, to avoid accidents, which means forgetting about 2 out of 3 Rs in this case.

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#229

Post by pravinva »

smdz wrote: post #172

The real reason to ban plastic so strictly in Mumbai is because plastic garbage chokes Mumbai's drainage systems and storm water system. And given the city's population and usage of plastic, the chokes are quite severe during the monsoon (rainy season) when it rains heavily. It is so severe that chokes can lead to extreme flooding and loss of life when it rains heavily and there is an onset of high-tide. The water so…

The choking nullahs aren't merely full of plastic. It's debris from the massive construction, both private and govt. Has anyone seen road design in Mumbai? The "expressway" signal junctions are made of paver blocks. Gutters are full of mud. The floods won't stop even if all plastic vanished

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#230

Post by rmk »

jdietrich wrote: post #154
vishaltelangre wrote: post #105

Instead, government could've imposed ban on the consumer products which are wrapped using plastic material. Almost 50% plastic come directly from such consumer products sold by all FMCG companies. Such plastic material which is used as a wrapper (e.g. mineral bottles, wrappers of chocolates, biscuits, wafers, tobacco, etc.) is often useless and people tend to throw it right away. I agree that "we", the people need to…

>Instead, government could've imposed ban on the consumer products which are wrapped using plastic material. Almost 50% plastic come directly from such consumer products sold by all FMCG companies. Such plastic material which is used as a wrapper (e.g. mineral bottles, wrappers of chocolates, biscuits, wafers, tobacco, etc.) is often useless and people tend to throw it right away. Broadly speaking, that would be a te…

This is the type of comment that keeps me coming back to hacker news!

Where did you get this information? Books? Care to share recommendations?

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