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Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

theguardian.com

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Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#201

Post by mrfusion »

mekazu wrote: post #120
vishaltelangre wrote: post #105

Instead, government could've imposed ban on the consumer products which are wrapped using plastic material. Almost 50% plastic come directly from such consumer products sold by all FMCG companies. Such plastic material which is used as a wrapper (e.g. mineral bottles, wrappers of chocolates, biscuits, wafers, tobacco, etc.) is often useless and people tend to throw it right away. I agree that "we", the people need to…

Plastic is sometimes useful to preserve fresh food to some degree. Without plastic many goods wouldn’t be viable. Would be nice though if at least the necessary plastic was highly recycleable, as well as cost efficient etc.

My thoughts exactly. How will they sell ground meat, mayonase, salad dressing?

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#202

Post by athenot »

majewsky wrote: post #49

Honest question: What will plastic bottles be replaced with that's more environmentally friendly? I can easily see plastic bags being replaced by jute bags, but the only alternative material for bottles that I know of is glass, which does not seem like a good alternative given its weight and fragility (and possibly energy use during production).

Glass bottles can be made to be sturdy. In Germany there is a glass beverage reuse system, where the empty bottles get returned for credit, washed, refilled and relabeled. The bottles exhibit dull rings where they rub against each other in the process, but otherwise they look new.

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#203

Post by riantogo »

athenot wrote: post #194
jdietrich wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Instead, government could've imposed ban on the consumer products which are wrapped using plastic material. Almost 50% plastic come directly from such consumer products sold by all FMCG companies. Such plastic material which is used as a wrapper (e.g. mineral bottles, wrappers of chocolates, biscuits, wafers, tobacco, etc.) is often useless and people tend to throw it right away. Broadly speaking, that would be a te…

While CO₂ emission is important, this is not primary reason for banning plastic bags. It's plastic in various states of (un)decomposition all over the ecosystem. A cucumber is 100% biodegradable with no solid residue. The plastic that wraps it will take a long time to decompose and is likely to be found clogging up some piece of nature—whether in the soil, affecting plants or obstructing some body function of an anim…

Based on jdietrich's input, it is then a waste processing problem and not a plastic problem. Tackling the symptom in this case seems net more harmful.

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#204

Post by jdietrich »

athenot wrote: post #194
jdietrich wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Instead, government could've imposed ban on the consumer products which are wrapped using plastic material. Almost 50% plastic come directly from such consumer products sold by all FMCG companies. Such plastic material which is used as a wrapper (e.g. mineral bottles, wrappers of chocolates, biscuits, wafers, tobacco, etc.) is often useless and people tend to throw it right away. Broadly speaking, that would be a te…

While CO₂ emission is important, this is not primary reason for banning plastic bags. It's plastic in various states of (un)decomposition all over the ecosystem. A cucumber is 100% biodegradable with no solid residue. The plastic that wraps it will take a long time to decompose and is likely to be found clogging up some piece of nature—whether in the soil, affecting plants or obstructing some body function of an anim…

Plastic packaging doesn't spontaneously release itself into the ecosystem, it's put there by someone irresponsibly managing waste. Norway and the Netherlands are both trialling waste-to-energy incineration with carbon capture. Failing that, there's nothing particularly wrong with well-managed landfill.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S187661021...

http://www.vivis.de/phocadownload/Download/2017_eaa/2017_EaA...

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#206

Post by riantogo »

dd36 wrote: post #182
jdietrich wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Instead, government could've imposed ban on the consumer products which are wrapped using plastic material. Almost 50% plastic come directly from such consumer products sold by all FMCG companies. Such plastic material which is used as a wrapper (e.g. mineral bottles, wrappers of chocolates, biscuits, wafers, tobacco, etc.) is often useless and people tend to throw it right away. Broadly speaking, that would be a te…

Cucumbers are more harmful than plastic?!? I stopped reading right there. One timely biodegrades, the other doesn’t. That’s the whole problem.

I recommend you continue reading. It is an insightful comment and might just broden your horizon on this topic.

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#207

Post by scotchmi_st »

state_less wrote: post #199
scotchmi_st wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a really great point that deserves to be it's own comment, rather than a reply to another. The two greatest challenges facing us in the next few years are climate change and water usage. Plastic is an issue, but it's not a life-or-death-for-the-species problem. We can figure plastic out later. We already are discovering bacteria and other organisms that can digest plastics. It seems to me we have a kind of li…

> As long as plastics are disposed responsibly in ways that don't damage plants and animals, what's the issue? Please don't discount one of the biggest issues though. I've told folks their plastic bottle is about to blow away (overlooking lands end, right over the ocean). The person picks it up, walks a bit further up the trail and throw it in the bushes. I've had folks throw their cigarette butt on the side of the r…

You're referring to anecdotes. Maybe the sort of behaviour is widespread, but even if it is, you then need to prove it's having much of an impact on the environment, and even then it's a drop in the ocean compared with the damage done via climate change and water consumption.

We need to get out of our parochial ideas about waste. Plastics are aesthetically bad, but other forces are quantitatively way worse.

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#208

Post by okmokmz »

shripadk wrote: post #187
piyush_soni wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some IT companies in India check your bags "for security purposes" while coming in/going out, or both. Yes, very disrespectful and insulting, but no one revolts so it's been going on (while their HRs will give powerpoint presentations on how trust is "one of the pillars" of their company). Most of them have a (probably made-up) story of how it was not the case before but someone broke their trust by stealing code in…

This has nothing to do with trust. One terror attack and the employees and their families would be getting back at the management for lax security and having made the big mistake of trusting their lives with the company. Workplace violence is a thing and it's better for everyone to go through security checks than risk liability. You never know how, when or why someone snaps (however mentally stable s/he was during re…

I really hope this is sarcasm... You think it's appropriate for every employee to be searched before entering a facility because there might be a "terror attack"? How many IT workers are there in the country, how many attacks have occurred in IT offices, and how many attacks have been prevented by searching employees bags? Giving up personal liberties and freedoms out of unsubstantiated fears based on a few fringe cases is a slippery slope. Also, I highly doubt that's what the policy is even about. The person you are replying to is probably correct that the policy is an attempt to prevent employees from leaving with company data

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#209

Post by jdietrich »

efficax wrote: post #167
jdietrich wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Instead, government could've imposed ban on the consumer products which are wrapped using plastic material. Almost 50% plastic come directly from such consumer products sold by all FMCG companies. Such plastic material which is used as a wrapper (e.g. mineral bottles, wrappers of chocolates, biscuits, wafers, tobacco, etc.) is often useless and people tend to throw it right away. Broadly speaking, that would be a te…

CO2 is only one environmental impact factor. Plastic waste is devastating for our oceans. Reducing plastic usage and CO2 should be twin goals.

>Plastic waste is devastating for our oceans.

CO2 is having a far more severe impact on the oceans through acidification. All of the world's major coral reefs have experienced severe bleaching events; the IPCC has predicted the complete collapse of many reef ecosystems if CO2 emissions are not brought under control.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_acidification

Re: Mumbai bans plastic bags, bottles, and single-use plastic containers

#210

Post by beauzero »

state_less wrote: post #197
TylerE wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly the kind of tunnel vision that annoys me. Things take much more energy to PRODUCE than to dispose of. Agriculture is incredibly energy, land, and water intensive.

We can and should do better. What if we had a robot that would drive through the fields, detecting weeds and crushing or cutting them out instead of chemical solutions? Couldn't we deliver the water more directly as well? Shouldn't transportation use battery powered vehicles instead of fossil fuel based vehicles? Can't we steam wash with renewable energy? Maybe it costs more to do some of these things now, but I thin…

On a happy note "no-till" is starting to prove itself. There are mixtures of effectiveness and chemical usage but checkout the No Till vids the USDA is promoting https://www.youtube.com/user/TheUSDANRCS
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