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Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

nytimes.com

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Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#181

Post by [deleted] »

dang wrote: post #172
ThbTs4wbXC9Qjv wrote: post #104

Fire every single one of those Microsoft employees. People in ICE protect me, mine, and our way of life with their lives every day of the week. I'm not going to flippantly say fuck those people because the politics of the day are making a mockery of a law that was duly imposed and enforced by both parties spanning multiple administrations because it's the fashionable political protest fad of the day. Protest the lead…

Rants like this will get you banned on HN regardless of what you're ranting about. Please follow the rules, of which you broke a whole bunch here. They are at https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html .

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#182

Post by fzeroracer »

koolba wrote: post #177
wwweston wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fun part about this question is that it's always asked as if it's crazy talk to suggest there could be variation in how different crimes are addressed.... when in fact, there's quite a latitude in how we handle different violations of the law. Or even individual cases. Not every crime is prosecuted and not every conviction means prison. Why should immigration be different? (And that's before we even get to the qu…

> Not every crime is prosecuted and not every conviction means prison. Why should immigration be different? Prosecution of illegal immigration is a bit special as anything short of full enforcement is arguably open borders. It’s unreasonably to expect an illegal entrant to show up for a court date. They’ve already demonstrated they won’t respect the law.

What makes this special versus literally every other case in America?

For example, there are people that have gotten away with driving drunk and killing people. Does that mean we've effectively legalized drunk driving? What kind of twisted logic is it that if we don't prosecute every single illegal immigrant to the absolute full extent that it results in open borders?

Why should people seeking asylum be treated worse than murderers and killers?

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#183

Post by fareesh »

dashundchen wrote: post #115
koolba wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s the alternative? Anyone else that commits a crime and is imprisoned is separated from their family and children. Why should illegal immigrants get a pass?

There are asylum seekers, including those applying at ports of entry, being separated from their children. These children are being ripped from their parents and kept in literal cages in warehouses. https://twitter.com/DemWrite/status/1008939085384126464 I don't think that is happening in your scenario.

The asylum backlog is 600,000 cases. They are not aslyum seekers, they are trying to take advantage of the backlog since under the earlier process they could just wait for their court date and disappear into the country before that. Asylum requests have gone up over 1000% because this exploit has been figured out and it is now the default method of gaining entry. 83% of the kids aren't even with their parents, they are posing as families. Only 2000 kids out of 12000 are actually with their parents. Kids can be held for upto 20 days maximum during which time they arrange for someone for them to stay with - mostly a family member.

The Mexico visa is a lot cheaper than the whole process to get a US green card. I would not be surprised if this becomes the preferred method for many seeking a life there.

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#184

Post by cascom »

swyx wrote: post #137
ThbTs4wbXC9Qjv wrote: post #104

Fire every single one of those Microsoft employees. People in ICE protect me, mine, and our way of life with their lives every day of the week. I'm not going to flippantly say fuck those people because the politics of the day are making a mockery of a law that was duly imposed and enforced by both parties spanning multiple administrations because it's the fashionable political protest fad of the day. Protest the lead…

honest question from a non american - how exactly does ICE protect you and yours every day? from my casual understanding they exclusively focus on illegal immigrants. is this mistaken?

It is mistaken - the “C” stands for customs - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Immigration_and_Customs...

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#185

Post by [deleted] »

dang wrote: post #166
ThbTs4wbXC9Qjv wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you'd rather see the children imprisoned with adults then? Even when we don't know 100% they are their parents or not? That's just sick. Utterly repulsive.

That's an egregious violation of the site rules, and you broke several others of them upthread. We ban accounts that post like this, so please don't do it again.

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#186

Post by patrickg_zill »

anigbrowl wrote: post #156
patrickg_zill wrote: post #47

It would be entirely expected and likely, that were MSFT to cancel their ICE contract, that many other parts of the Federal government would leave MSFT's services. After all, they too would be only 1 media dustup away from having to deal with finding another vendor suddenly.

That's a lot easier said than done. Microsoft might decide to look ahead to a time when Trump is not in office. Are the short-term gains worth the long term reputational damage?

They bought Skype and turned over the keys to it, to the NSA. Did it seriously hurt their reputation?

They added telemetry which can't be easily disabled, to all parts of Windows desktop OS - did that seriously hurt their reputation?

Supposedly they sell stuff to the DIA, DoD and NSA - what is the long term reputational damage from that?

They sell stuff to police departments, like the Ferguson police that (allegedly/from one point of view) shoot dead black men - any feedback from that?

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#187

Post by TheCoelacanth »

furgooswft13 wrote: post #176
TheCoelacanth wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Asylum seekers" is the term for people who show up at a port of entry and ask for asylum. We don't have to admit all of them to the country, but are obligated by treaty to give their applications for asylum due consideration. It is also not reasonable to forcibly separate them from their families when their only crime is to ask to be allowed into the country.

To my understanding, the people who actually showed up at an official port of entry are not the ones facing criminal prosecution and family separation. In fact, most of them are simply turned away or told "we're full for the day" or some such. Of course this often prompts them to just attempt crossing in an illegal way. Regardless, at that point it's no longer a matter of "asking to be allowed into the country". Poin…

An asylum seeker under US law is anyone who requests asylum within a year of entry. There is no question that these people are legitimate asylum seekers. Many of them will not meet the criteria to be granted asylum, but that does mean that their requests are not legitimate.

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#188

Post by koolba »

fzeroracer wrote: post #182
koolba wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not every crime is prosecuted and not every conviction means prison. Why should immigration be different? Prosecution of illegal immigration is a bit special as anything short of full enforcement is arguably open borders. It’s unreasonably to expect an illegal entrant to show up for a court date. They’ve already demonstrated they won’t respect the law.

What makes this special versus literally every other case in America? For example, there are people that have gotten away with driving drunk and killing people. Does that mean we've effectively legalized drunk driving? What kind of twisted logic is it that if we don't prosecute every single illegal immigrant to the absolute full extent that it results in open borders? Why should people seeking asylum be treated worse…

The crime isn’t seeking asylum. It’s entering the country illegally.

The asylum part is irrelevant for anything beyond creating a sob story for marketing politically divisive messaging.

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#189

Post by anigbrowl »

patrickg_zill wrote: post #186
anigbrowl wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a lot easier said than done. Microsoft might decide to look ahead to a time when Trump is not in office. Are the short-term gains worth the long term reputational damage?

They bought Skype and turned over the keys to it, to the NSA. Did it seriously hurt their reputation? They added telemetry which can't be easily disabled, to all parts of Windows desktop OS - did that seriously hurt their reputation? Supposedly they sell stuff to the DIA, DoD and NSA - what is the long term reputational damage from that? They sell stuff to police departments, like the Ferguson police that (allegedly/…

For all we know it's this pattern of behavior that has motivated this current pushback by Microsoft staff. I'm sure you're aware that some political issues attract wider attention than others, and that while people rarely march in the streets to protest the NSA the same is not true of other agencies.

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#190

Post by dmode »

I was lukewarm towards the rights of undocumented immigrants prior to Trump. But his actions in dehumanizing a whole class of people who are desperate for help and support as "criminals" have changed my views. As a father, the screams of children being separated from their parents is haunting. I hear the cries of my own daughter. I can't even begin to imagine her trauma if someone forcibly separated her from me. This is barbaric and inhumane at such a fundamental level that I know how anyone can support this.
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