Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#121

Post by ihsw2 » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 1:54 AM UTC

elicash wrote: post #92

wildmusings wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a distortion of what’s happening. Crossing into the US illegally is a crime. We are now arresting and charging people who commit it. We do not send innocent children to prison, so the only option is separation. If you commit any other crime and are arrested, you will be “separated” from your child, because your child does not belong in prison. Why do you expect this to be any different?

We're mostly talking about misdemeanors here. No, in most cases of misdemeanors we don't throw children in cages and take them away from their moms and dads.

We do now.

Separating children from the adults they are accompanied by is a long-standing practice to prevent human trafficking and there are valid reasons for it that both sides of the aisle support, the difference is that ICE is now treating it as a criminal act requiring the aforementioned remanding into state custody while the details are sorted out.

If there is an increase of "asylum seekers" then the time to process them will similarly increase, and as such children with their "families" are in state custody for a similarly increased amount of time.

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#122

Post by gasull » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 1:54 AM UTC

kozikow wrote: post #100

I don't understand the issue fully, so I would love if someone would prove me wrong. You commit a crime. Your child commits a crime. You go to prison. Your child goes to a youth detention center. OMG FACISM !! Meanwhile, my Chinese and Indian friends wait patiently 20 years for a green card and no one bats an eye. Edit: Look at top 4 downvoted comments, 4 top upvoted comments. Great way to promote thoughtful discussi…

Asking for asylum is not a crime, or shouldn't be. They are being detained at the border.

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#123

Post by RickJWagner » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 1:54 AM UTC

There's a finite amount of money available for social programs. It's a zero sum game.

The more new immigrants that require resources, the less available for other underprivileged folks.

Be careful how you acquire your social 'feel good' points. It might be hurting someone.

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#124

Post by philliphaydon » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 1:55 AM UTC

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #83

ginger123 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you ok if illegals immigrants move into your neighborhood and compete for your job? EDIT: Why am I being downvoted? I asked a legitimate question. If illegal immigrants moved into your neighborhood and affected the socioeconomic status, school ratings etc of your neighborhood, how will you react? Will you advocate for the same policies you are advocating now? I have a feeling most of the people who are supporting…

If someone wants to do my job better than me for the same or less money, they're welcome to it.

If you went to America, legally, got a work visa etc and got a job, then lost that job to someone who sneeked in across the border or overstayed a visitor visa, you would welcome it?

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#125

Post by izendejas » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 1:55 AM UTC

dilippkumar wrote: post #5

If only legal immigration reform had this much political attention...

I appreciate that legal immigration (as if people doing so illegally didn't wish this was an option for them, also) is an important issue for you, but other people matter, also.

The kids aren't doing so well right now. You or anyone you care about are not being detained away from family, so let's at least be thankful for that. This to me isn't even a political issue, it's a human rights issue. And to top it off you have an administration that is flat-out lying every chance they get, contradicting themselves in pathetic ways.

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#126

Post by leftistcensor03 » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 1:55 AM UTC

cycrutchfield wrote: post #55

wildmusings wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a distortion of what’s happening. Crossing into the US illegally is a crime. We are now arresting and charging people who commit it. We do not send innocent children to prison, so the only option is separation. If you commit any other crime and are arrested, you will be “separated” from your child, because your child does not belong in prison. Why do you expect this to be any different?

Applying for asylum is a crime?

you apply for asylum legally at a port of entry, like every one else. hopping the border and evading customs is illegal, and bringing your kids with you is not a get out of jail free card. it's really that simple. how do you not see this as an untenable immigration policy and disrespectful to people immigrating here legally?

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#127

Post by shiado » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 1:55 AM UTC

It is interesting that this is where some people draw the line of unethical behavior for Microsoft of all corporations.

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#128

Post by Someone1234 » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 1:55 AM UTC

mmirate wrote: post #113

Someone1234 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's inaccurate. This person applied for asylum at a port of entry and was immediately separated from his child: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/show/migrant-seeking-asylum... This article goes into detail about several other cases. Quote: > But there is evidence that even families who seek asylum at ports of entry are being separated. One high-profile case involves a Congolese woman who sought asylum and still wa…

Since the grandparent is rate-limited, I'll point out for them that the incident you’re pointing out is more nuanced than you seem to think. To combat human trafficking, we separate children from adults we suspect may not be their parents, pending further investigation like interviews of the children and interrogation of the supposed parents. That has nothing to do with the recent headlines and is longstanding practi…

Per my second link, the separation was indefinite while the asylum claim was evaluated, and asylum eligibility appears to be the main criteria rather than establishing parental relationship (which could take as long as DNA tests to come back).

Plus this claim:

> Applying for asylum at a port of entry is not a crime, and none of those people are being detained or separated from their kids.

Was wrong no matter how it is justified.

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#129

Post by nickwalton00 » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 1:56 AM UTC

downandout wrote: post #53

Could someone help me understand the issue with this whole thing? If you show up to commit a crime with your children in tow, you are going to wind up separated from them while you go to jail for that crime. That is as true for illegal entry as it is for bank robbery. Why does the Valley feel that it's OK for immigration laws to be violated? Even very liberal countries around the world tend to be tough on illegal imm…

Because many of these people are essentially refugees fleeing violence and extreme poverty in their home countries. Instead of helping these people we're tearing them from their families.

Imagine people fleeing a country from a flood or attacking country (like Germany in WWII) we're torn from their children and held separately? Does that seem humane?

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#130

Post by popularrecluse » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 1:57 AM UTC

ginger123 wrote: post #96

popularrecluse wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've done everything from washing dishes, waiting tables, managing 2 coffee shops, landscape work, data entry, to my current work as a mobile developer. And I know where you're going with this, and no I've never had trouble finding work when I needed it.

What if I told you the presence of undocumented immigrants might have depressed your earnings as a dishwasher. No hard feelings still? PS. I know, I am assigning a stereotypical job to an undocumented immigrant.

You'd be right about the profile. But the thought of missed wages doesn't bother me because it was long ago, and if anything, they worked as hard, if not harder than I did. And we were friends doing the same shit work together.