Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#91

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 1:46 AM UTC

wildmusings wrote: post #56

jsemrau wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Good on these folks for stepping up. I am not American, but this is the point in time where you take a stand. Where America needs to fight for it's democracy. This is not the time to be complacent.

Defending our democracy? How about the majorities that passed the immigration laws that are being enforced? What does democracy have to do with the right to immigrate to America without permission? Edit: I’m not commenting on the propriety of the Microsoft employees’ actions. They are clearly free to urge their employer to refrain from participating in something they disagree with. That is absolutely part of what liv…

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#92

Post by elicash » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 1:47 AM UTC

wildmusings wrote: post #45

i_dont_know_ wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're getting it very wrong; this isn't about people saying "let's just allow illegal immigrants the full rights of legal immigrants". There are some people saying that, but they're a small minority. This is about saying "some people have come here illegally. let's not psychologically torture their children for it" You can be for legal migration and the humane treatment of people at the same time.

This is such a distortion of what’s happening. Crossing into the US illegally is a crime. We are now arresting and charging people who commit it. We do not send innocent children to prison, so the only option is separation. If you commit any other crime and are arrested, you will be “separated” from your child, because your child does not belong in prison. Why do you expect this to be any different?

We're mostly talking about misdemeanors here. No, in most cases of misdemeanors we don't throw children in cages and take them away from their moms and dads.

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#93

Post by koolba » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 1:47 AM UTC

i_dont_know_ wrote: post #30

kojon99 wrote: post #14

I’m not American and I’ve always found it fascinating how a part of the American population defends the existence of illegal immigrants in American soil. It’s crazy.

I think you're getting it very wrong; this isn't about people saying "let's just allow illegal immigrants the full rights of legal immigrants". There are some people saying that, but they're a small minority. This is about saying "some people have come here illegally. let's not psychologically torture their children for it" You can be for legal migration and the humane treatment of people at the same time.

What’s the alternative? Anyone else that commits a crime and is imprisoned is separated from their family and children. Why should illegal immigrants get a pass?

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#94

Post by izendejas » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 1:48 AM UTC

sanderjd wrote: post #43

kojon99 wrote: post #14

I’m not American and I’ve always found it fascinating how a part of the American population defends the existence of illegal immigrants in American soil. It’s crazy.

tldr: I'll be in favor of cracking down on illegal immigrants when people stop hiring them for fear of getting in trouble. This is a naive reading of the politics. Very few people are actively in favor of illegal immigration. Many people believe the cures (that is, the ones that politicians push for) are worse than the disease. My personal view is that if we really wanted to solve the problem, we would do it on the e…

This. If you really want to stop illegal immigration you go after employers who hire them. But even our president is content with hiring them, just not treating them like humans with certain inalienable rights.

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#95

Post by noonespecial » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 1:48 AM UTC

wildmusings wrote: post #56

jsemrau wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Good on these folks for stepping up. I am not American, but this is the point in time where you take a stand. Where America needs to fight for it's democracy. This is not the time to be complacent.

Defending our democracy? How about the majorities that passed the immigration laws that are being enforced? What does democracy have to do with the right to immigrate to America without permission? Edit: I’m not commenting on the propriety of the Microsoft employees’ actions. They are clearly free to urge their employer to refrain from participating in something they disagree with. That is absolutely part of what liv…

Its part of the democracy. Not working on a particular thing you know is going to be used in a way you disapprove of is a kind of vote.

Hell, even if you approve of how they are enforcing border policy doesn't mean you necessarily want to work on the machinations of it.

If a majority votes to carry out an unpleasant action but then can't find anyone willing to carry it out on their behalf, it might be a warning sign. (Honestly, I don't think we're that far gone though. I think we've just got a case of "We should control our borders... wait, no, not like that!")

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#96

Post by ginger123 » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 1:48 AM UTC

popularrecluse wrote: post #61

ginger123 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of work do you do?

I've done everything from washing dishes, waiting tables, managing 2 coffee shops, landscape work, data entry, to my current work as a mobile developer. And I know where you're going with this, and no I've never had trouble finding work when I needed it.

What if I told you the presence of undocumented immigrants might have depressed your earnings as a dishwasher. No hard feelings still?

PS. I know, I am assigning a stereotypical job to an undocumented immigrant.

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#97

Post by ihsw2 » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 1:48 AM UTC

i_dont_know_ wrote: post #30

kojon99 wrote: post #14

I’m not American and I’ve always found it fascinating how a part of the American population defends the existence of illegal immigrants in American soil. It’s crazy.

I think you're getting it very wrong; this isn't about people saying "let's just allow illegal immigrants the full rights of legal immigrants". There are some people saying that, but they're a small minority. This is about saying "some people have come here illegally. let's not psychologically torture their children for it" You can be for legal migration and the humane treatment of people at the same time.

Psychologically torture? Once their asylum claim has been processed, they are reunited with their parents. Either it is declined and they are deported with their parents, or they are accepted and provided temporary asylum with their parents.

The asylum process takes a lengthy indeterminate period of time and their parents choose to apply for asylum -- repeat: their parents are informed of this and they make an informed choice to be placed into custody while this process occurs. They always have the choice to voluntarily be deported with their children back to their country of origin.

Attempting to illegally enter the US is a crime, if that wasn't self-evident enough. Criminals are placed into custody and children are not allowed to be placed into custody with the adults they arrived with.

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#98

Post by krapp » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 1:49 AM UTC

ginger123 wrote: post #79

krapp wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the fault of illegal immigrants that American companies are willing to hire them.

You want to let people in here illegally and once they are here you want to starve them and their kids? That is crueler than any detention. Also, it is not always corporations that are hiring people. I have a gardener who comes to my house with assistants, some people told me his assistants are undocumented. Am I supposed to racially profile people and ask for their immigration papers? Sounds racist to me. The most h…

>You want to let people in here illegally and once they are here you want to starve them and their kids? That is crueler than any detention.

My comment was a single sentence, and it wasn't about what I wanted but about what many American business sectors do.

Like it or not, the US benefits greatly from illegal labor. Having a "merciless" immigration policy in a country full of immigrants and the descendents of immigrants otherwise happy to exploit illegal immigration en masse is hypocritical.

>The most humane policy is to make the expectations very clear to potential illegal immigrants.

No, the most humane policy is to treat people humanely, not warn them beforehand of your intent to do otherwise.

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#99

Post by sg47 » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 1:49 AM UTC

wildmusings wrote: post #68

nomocrypto wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize that borders are totally arbitrary and that with the stroke of a pen any of these rules could be changed, right? What makes you so convinced that we are completely powerless to change this system that we’ve created? Just repeating “it’s a crime!” over and over again is absolutely no justification for how these people are treated, and I think you know that.

If you don’t believe a nation has the moral right to decide who to admit into itself, then we’re just operating from different axioms and will never agree.

It's nice to see a Native American like yourself standing up for the country marcoperaza.

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#100

Post by kozikow » Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 1:49 AM UTC

I don't understand the issue fully, so I would love if someone would prove me wrong.

You commit a crime. Your child commits a crime.

You go to prison. Your child goes to a youth detention center.

OMG FACISM !! Meanwhile, my Chinese and Indian friends wait patiently 20 years for a green card and no one bats an eye.

Edit: Look at top 4 downvoted comments, 4 top upvoted comments. Great way to promote thoughtful discussion. Let's just upvote whoever shakes the fists in the air with the most vigor.