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Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

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Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#211

Post by chipotle_coyote »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #204
nrb wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps it could also be at least partly related to the systemic and indiscriminate killing of people of color by police forces across the entire country. I can't say I blame would-be "good cop" cadets deciding not to join the force to be associated with these acts; the willingness to protect bad cops by leadership seems, from the outside, to mean the entire system is rotten and impossible to change from within.

Well that's certainly the narrative that drives it. However for something to be systemic, it has to be happening regularly everywhere. The people who promote this narrative can only really point to a couple of unjustified office involved shootings (which are of course a tragedies, but are in no way 'systemic'), and in reality spend most of their time complaining about perfectly justified shootings as a scapegoat for…

In 2017, police killed 1,129 people. Were the vast majority of those "perfectly justified?" How about the vast majority of the 718 that were suspects in nonviolent offenses? Or the 147 that were unarmed? Are you sure? I'm not.

The reason "the narrative" exists, I think, is that there's a widespread perception that regardless of the circumstances of the shooting -- even if the evidence clearly shows the police shot an unarmed victim in the back multiple times, for instance -- the police tend to get off on the grounds that they "felt threatened." This contributes to a feeling that the police are held to a lesser standard than non-police suspects, rather than the same standard.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#212

Post by jacobsenscott »

rwmj wrote: post #18

I had to make a 999 call a few years back because I saw a woman faint and bang her head on a concrete pavement. Although I was in the local area which I know very well, it was really difficult - when put on the spot in an emergency - to describe my exact location.

One time when I called 911 I was so stressed I couldn't remember my own address. I had to pick up a piece of mail and read it. Stress does weird things to you.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#213

Post by nradov »

21 wrote: post #187
dingaling wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A couple of seconds later they will send more accurate GPS coordinates for most calls I wish my day-to-day GPS initialised and obtained an initial fix that quickly. Usually it needs at least five minutes, sometimes over an hour. From an earlier job I vaguely remember that a NavStar cold-fix requires two or three minutes at a minimum with optimal conditions.

Maybe you just need a new phone/device? With each new phone I had faster and faster GPS lock time.

Cellular devices can get rough location fixes very quickly because the cell towers cue them with assist data, plus they can download the satellite constellation ephemeris data in advance. Stand-alone GPS receivers are much slower since they lack all of those clues. And if the device was just powered on and hasn't gotten a fix near the current location within the past few hours then they can get really slow. If you take your cell phone out in a canyon somewhere with no cell coverage, turn it off for a few days, and then turn it to get a GPS fix expect it to take a while.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#214

Post by bonestamp2 »

tpetry wrote: post #100
Terretta wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ”reverse geo-coding, turning a lat/long into a human readable place highly inaccurate ... no means of turning a lat/long into a point on the map” Three words for you ... https://what3words.com

But navigation systems in an car do work on streetnames and numbers ;)

It's just the method for communicating the destination coordinates quickly and accurately. Google Maps can do the actual routing from there.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#215

Post by bonestamp2 »

Terretta wrote: post #90
bungie4 wrote: post #87

I work in 911, Telematics, alarm, PERS space. We are a PSAP (Public Safety Answer Point) The device might send a Geocode, but reverse geo-coding (turning a long/lat into a human readable place) is a highly inaccurate thing. Secondly, most responders have no means of turning a long/lat into a point on the map, short of using their personal phone. Next, altitude is not factored in. Imagine being in a downtown office bu…

> ”reverse geo-coding, turning a lat/long into a human readable place highly inaccurate ... no means of turning a lat/long into a point on the map” Three words for you ... https://what3words.com

I was going to suggest this, or a standard like it, too.

Sure, it doesn't help with altitude, although maybe a fourth word could be added for that, and "what floor are you on?" is a simple question to ask and understand the answer to anyways.

If people can be dispatched to a location, getting the altitude a few minutes later is still a good use of time. Not to mention, if you're in a tall building you've also probably got extra coworkers or neighbors to go to the elevator or go to the ground floor to help the responders get to the victim quickly.

Also, phones could be configured to automatically and quickly read the 3 words as soon as they connect to 911 so if they're calling a 911 call center that has not adopted any location technology the information can still be transmitted quickly, accurately and automatically in under 2 seconds to any phone without proprietary software on the receiving end.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#216

Post by dbcooperlives »

gregsadetsky wrote: post #93

This is an extraordinarily important and interesting “space” ripe for innovation. A few weeks ago, I was awarded one of the highest civilian public awards from the Commandant of the US Coast Guard in DC for my volunteer web mapping work during Harvey. That work helped coordinate 700 helicopter sorties and save 1700 lives. I’ve been thinking — and talking with Emergency Responders — about what an up to date 911 would…

A lot of what you are imagining is already a reality in many areas. Our company takes care of pretty much all of the services in a PSAP; call-taking, computer aided dispatch, map, and radio dispatch, plus records and jail management for law enforcement. All the systems work together and it is absolutely possible for a dispatcher to patch a caller into a radio talkgroup, individual call, or to a first responders cell phone... it just isn't very useful and it is hardly ever done in real life.

Mobile CAD and RMS are catching on as well so in many departments, first responders can see and hear everything going on in dispatch from their tablets or laptops if they want. They can see what calls are active, what units are assigned to them, and actually interact with the caller if it is allowed. Again, this isn't always that useful. Staff in dispatch almost always have a better understanding of what is going on big picture wise and are already on top of allocating resources and clearing information. Going around them is not all that helpful. Silent dispatch is nice for beat work. It's great when CAD automatically creates incidents in RMS that LE can easily pull into reports... including recordings of the 911 calls etc.

There are popular smartphone apps like active 911, Bryx911, edispatch ,and iamresponding that are great for first responders, especially volunteers. These apps sync with the CAD system in dispatch and offer alert/response, mapping, and messaging features.

The space changes slowly, but it is very much changing and adapting to the smartphone era. FirstNet will probably accelerate these kinds of changes, which is a good thing... but I am sure it will introduce its own set of problems.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#217

Post by AmericanChopper »

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #211
AmericanChopper wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that's certainly the narrative that drives it. However for something to be systemic, it has to be happening regularly everywhere. The people who promote this narrative can only really point to a couple of unjustified office involved shootings (which are of course a tragedies, but are in no way 'systemic'), and in reality spend most of their time complaining about perfectly justified shootings as a scapegoat for…

In 2017, police killed 1,129 people. Were the vast majority of those "perfectly justified?" How about the vast majority of the 718 that were suspects in nonviolent offenses? Or the 147 that were unarmed? Are you sure? I'm not. The reason "the narrative" exists, I think, is that there's a widespread perception that regardless of the circumstances of the shooting -- even if the evidence clearly shows the police shot an…

The vast majority absolutely are. There are some examples that are not, and whenever something even remotely questionable happens, the narrative pushers jump on it immediately. If you think the vast majority aren't, then go find some examples. You won't be able to come up with more than a couple.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#218

Post by jessaustin »

bungie4 wrote: post #113
gregsadetsky wrote: post #93

This is an extraordinarily important and interesting “space” ripe for innovation. A few weeks ago, I was awarded one of the highest civilian public awards from the Commandant of the US Coast Guard in DC for my volunteer web mapping work during Harvey. That work helped coordinate 700 helicopter sorties and save 1700 lives. I’ve been thinking — and talking with Emergency Responders — about what an up to date 911 would…

Yup. But the issue is a financial one, not a technological one. All manner of things can be accomplished at the origin. But all the other links in the chain must have access to the companion technology (read money). This is just not available on a widespread basis. Then, you have issues of adoption, and, competing services and standards. We are experiencing this very thing with regards to Fire dispatch, with all mann…

Maybe this is what you meant, but it seems possible that you could just publish your data through your own protocol, and allow the apps to read it in that form if they want? Or perhaps I've misunderstood your position in this...

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#219

Post by forapurpose »

lisper wrote: post #162
patmcc wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> it's not even a hard choice: I'll take the former as by far the lesser of the two evils. Right or wrong, I think you're in the extreme minority here. Edit: I'm not necessarily speaking for myself here, but then I'm in a low-risk area and demographic, so am not especially likely to need 911. But I think the average "man on the street" would not give a second thought about it.

I don't know how "extreme" the minority is, but yes, most people seem to choose safety over freedom. It's a defensible choice. But it should be a choice , not the default assumption.

> most people seem to choose safety over freedom

I don't think that's true as often as our pessimistic sides would assume:

People risk their lives for freedom, in fighting wars, in challenging oppressors, in trying to escape. To say it more dramatically: A few people once agreed to risk their lives, their fortunes, and their honor for liberty, not the other way around.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#220

Post by forapurpose »

himom wrote: post #140
reaperducer wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly, this is not unique to Oakland. Several of the cities I've lived in have been plagued with 911 hold times of 10-20 minutes or more. In one city, the mayor threatened to put a checklist on the ballot so people could decide which types of emergencies would be responded to, and the top vote-getters would be funded. In another, a city council member publicly told his constituents "the police are not here to protect…

Ouch. Sounds like a failed state scenario: anarchy by services disappearing and unconcern for community. When a government ceases to provide a fundamental function, such as protecting its citizens, it risks irrelevancy... and citizens better form their own government to replace the one not doing its job, or they’re inviting criminal thugs reminiscent of ISIS to fill the power-vacuum.

> failed state scenario ... criminal thugs reminiscent of ISIS

In Las Vegas? Really?

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