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Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

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Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#161

Post by chriselles »

gregsadetsky wrote: post #93

This is an extraordinarily important and interesting “space” ripe for innovation. A few weeks ago, I was awarded one of the highest civilian public awards from the Commandant of the US Coast Guard in DC for my volunteer web mapping work during Harvey. That work helped coordinate 700 helicopter sorties and save 1700 lives. I’ve been thinking — and talking with Emergency Responders — about what an up to date 911 would…

Excellent!

I led a Hacking 4 Defence style problem solving sessions that saw the development of an idea that included:

open source review of native app source code

partnering with national carriers to embed app on device at point of sale

provide Humanitarian and Disaster Relief(HADR) “ground truth” immediately overlayed on a heat map to reduce disaster reconnaissance needs(ie Haiti)

everyone in the 3rd world has a smartphone.

tie the app into semiautomatic mesh network functionality(we saw mobile cell towers fail in power outages here in Christchurch, Nz in 2011 Earthquake).

tie the app into emergency HADR network(tethered dirigible with suspended coms/retrans)

*tie the app into an emergency mobile network consisting of coms/retrains in every next generation first responders vehicle.

So many opportunities to leverage off the shelf tech for first responder & disaster management intelligence gathering and dissemination done in an appropriate way with high public trust.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#162

Post by lisper »

patmcc wrote: post #156
lisper wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Imagine! I am, and it scares the hell out of me. If I have to choose between having emergency responders possibly not being able to locate me, and having the government be able to track my every move along with everyone else's, it's not even a hard choice: I'll take the former as by far the lesser of the two evils. Being able to reliably hide my location is every bit as important to personal freedom as being able t…

>> it's not even a hard choice: I'll take the former as by far the lesser of the two evils. Right or wrong, I think you're in the extreme minority here. Edit: I'm not necessarily speaking for myself here, but then I'm in a low-risk area and demographic, so am not especially likely to need 911. But I think the average "man on the street" would not give a second thought about it.

I don't know how "extreme" the minority is, but yes, most people seem to choose safety over freedom. It's a defensible choice. But it should be a choice, not the default assumption.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#163

Post by gregsadetsky »

dang wrote: post #147
gregsadetsky wrote: post #93

This is an extraordinarily important and interesting “space” ripe for innovation. A few weeks ago, I was awarded one of the highest civilian public awards from the Commandant of the US Coast Guard in DC for my volunteer web mapping work during Harvey. That work helped coordinate 700 helicopter sorties and save 1700 lives. I’ve been thinking — and talking with Emergency Responders — about what an up to date 911 would…

When you get to the stage of concrete work on this, please email us at hn@ycombinator.com and maybe we can arrange an AMA-like discussion about it. I think the community would likely find that interesting.

Thank you, dang. I love and owe this community a lot, and would be thrilled to involve it.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#164

Post by zolthrowaway »

himom wrote: post #140
reaperducer wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly, this is not unique to Oakland. Several of the cities I've lived in have been plagued with 911 hold times of 10-20 minutes or more. In one city, the mayor threatened to put a checklist on the ballot so people could decide which types of emergencies would be responded to, and the top vote-getters would be funded. In another, a city council member publicly told his constituents "the police are not here to protect…

Ouch. Sounds like a failed state scenario: anarchy by services disappearing and unconcern for community. When a government ceases to provide a fundamental function, such as protecting its citizens, it risks irrelevancy... and citizens better form their own government to replace the one not doing its job, or they’re inviting criminal thugs reminiscent of ISIS to fill the power-vacuum.

Many political philosophies believe THE fundamental purpose of government is to protect. Not performing the reason why people accept government in the first place means that the government has failed to do the reason it was created. It's not a legitimate government.

Your post and example is right on the money. This is incredibly scary and seems to be happening more and more as governments aren't allocating funds to do critical functions.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#165

Post by tempz »

patmcc wrote: post #156
lisper wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Imagine! I am, and it scares the hell out of me. If I have to choose between having emergency responders possibly not being able to locate me, and having the government be able to track my every move along with everyone else's, it's not even a hard choice: I'll take the former as by far the lesser of the two evils. Being able to reliably hide my location is every bit as important to personal freedom as being able t…

>> it's not even a hard choice: I'll take the former as by far the lesser of the two evils. Right or wrong, I think you're in the extreme minority here. Edit: I'm not necessarily speaking for myself here, but then I'm in a low-risk area and demographic, so am not especially likely to need 911. But I think the average "man on the street" would not give a second thought about it.

No he is not. Do not confuse 'minority' with 'people comfortable expressing unpopular opinions'.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#166

Post by AcerbicZero »

lisper wrote: post #154
gregsadetsky wrote: post #93

This is an extraordinarily important and interesting “space” ripe for innovation. A few weeks ago, I was awarded one of the highest civilian public awards from the Commandant of the US Coast Guard in DC for my volunteer web mapping work during Harvey. That work helped coordinate 700 helicopter sorties and save 1700 lives. I’ve been thinking — and talking with Emergency Responders — about what an up to date 911 would…

> Imagine! I am, and it scares the hell out of me. If I have to choose between having emergency responders possibly not being able to locate me, and having the government be able to track my every move along with everyone else's, it's not even a hard choice: I'll take the former as by far the lesser of the two evils. Being able to reliably hide my location is every bit as important to personal freedom as being able t…

I was envisioning a system where dialing 911 sent additional location data to the emergency service, but I can completely understand having serious concerns about the privacy cost and the other risks associated with any such system.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#167

Post by gregsadetsky »

pxlpshr wrote: post #153
gregsadetsky wrote: post #93

This is an extraordinarily important and interesting “space” ripe for innovation. A few weeks ago, I was awarded one of the highest civilian public awards from the Commandant of the US Coast Guard in DC for my volunteer web mapping work during Harvey. That work helped coordinate 700 helicopter sorties and save 1700 lives. I’ve been thinking — and talking with Emergency Responders — about what an up to date 911 would…

I built this about 6 years ago with Lloyd's of London as the underwriter for medical evacuation and search & rescue services. We were way to early for smartphone market, but the GEOS response team behind FindMeSpot.com can be contracted by anyone. http://www.geosworldwide.com/ The challenge for any private company is that the solution needs to be completely integrated into both the device and behavioral patterns need…

I absolutely agree that any new solution will need to be transparent / obvious / non-3rd party app based.

While getting Apple and Google on board may seem like a tall order (I’m sure it is), both have implemented 112’s AML spec natively. Google is also driving this with their Android ELS efforts.

Having emergency responders, and public opinion, on the side of this happening should convince both A and G to look into this.

... and yes, replace the SOS dialpad (!) with something better.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#168

Post by alasdair_ »

Terretta wrote: post #90
bungie4 wrote: post #87

I work in 911, Telematics, alarm, PERS space. We are a PSAP (Public Safety Answer Point) The device might send a Geocode, but reverse geo-coding (turning a long/lat into a human readable place) is a highly inaccurate thing. Secondly, most responders have no means of turning a long/lat into a point on the map, short of using their personal phone. Next, altitude is not factored in. Imagine being in a downtown office bu…

> ”reverse geo-coding, turning a lat/long into a human readable place highly inaccurate ... no means of turning a lat/long into a point on the map” Three words for you ... https://what3words.com

How does this help a responder determine if the location is on the first floor or the 57th?

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#169

Post by alasdair_ »

ihuman wrote: post #129
Terretta wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ”reverse geo-coding, turning a lat/long into a human readable place highly inaccurate ... no means of turning a lat/long into a point on the map” Three words for you ... https://what3words.com

A public-domain alternative to that would be a Geohash[1]. Instead of 3 words, its a string of letters and numbers. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geohash

Or just state an appropriate S2 cell.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#170

Post by jnbiche »

baddox wrote: post #158
lisper wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Imagine! I am, and it scares the hell out of me. If I have to choose between having emergency responders possibly not being able to locate me, and having the government be able to track my every move along with everyone else's, it's not even a hard choice: I'll take the former as by far the lesser of the two evils. Being able to reliably hide my location is every bit as important to personal freedom as being able t…

Can’t the government already locate phones for missing persons? I don’t know if that requires a warrant or what, but I seem to remember hearing about locating the last “ping” of a phone to a tower for many missing persons cases.

> Can’t the government already locate phones for missing persons?

Yes, but in the past that's required a warrant. Has that changed?

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