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Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

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Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#81

Post by balabaster »

Waterluvian wrote: post #44
rwmj wrote: post #18

I had to make a 999 call a few years back because I saw a woman faint and bang her head on a concrete pavement. Although I was in the local area which I know very well, it was really difficult - when put on the spot in an emergency - to describe my exact location.

Yeah. I regularly test myself when bored while driving to verbalize where I am. "Highway 401 East.. uhh I think I passed an exit for Guelph a while ago? I don't see a marker at the moment." Off topic: if you're often bored while driving, learn the NATO phonetic alphabet using license plates around you. It helps me four or five times a year when reading off things to people in customer service. The beauty of it is tha…

Do you know how many times I use the phonetic alphabet and then have to simplify even more because the person on the other end of the phone doesn't understand it? :D

F for what? S? F is now Frank and S is now Sugar, because Foxtrot and Sierra often just get "was that s or f? What is Soxtrot?" it's ridiculous. I think everyone should be taught the NATO phonetic alphabet in school. When I'm talking to someone on the phone, I don't want to have to resort to Apple Banana Chocolate like we're all 5.

Also, I live just down the road from Guelph and worked in Guelph for a while :)

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#82

Post by emptybits »

jakebasile wrote: post #22
emptybits wrote: post #14

Will it be possible to make an anonymous 911 call? There can be scenarios, I think, where we (society) do not want to deter someone from reporting an emergency due to fear of being identified. Off the top of my head, consider a situation involving organized crime taking place, where call centre staff (or law enforcement) may be compelled to leak the identity of a witness.

I don't think it's possible to make an anonymous 911 call unless you're using a public phone. I think this is ok, since 911 is specifically for emergencies and you generally want the police/EMS to know where you are immediately since seconds can count. I think of it a bit like implied consent in first aid: by calling 911 you are inherently consenting for your location to be shared since it is likely you are in some f…

> You're mentioning things like organized crime reporting, which are not emergencies.

I may have been unclear but I said crime "taking place", implying crime in progress. I think any serious crime in progress (theft, assault, murder, etc.) deserves urgent attention, regardless of it being undertaken by mafia or gangs or amateurs or professionals.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#83

Post by core-questions »

VonGuard wrote: post #63

Oakland needs this help so badly. Call 911 on a cell in Oakland, and you're going to wait on hold for 30 minutes, most of which will be you being transfered to the wrong departments over and over. You start at a call center somewhere in middle America with a person who does not know where Oakland is. They pass you to CA CHP, who don't know Oakland either, because their dispatcher on the line is out of Sacramento. Fin…

Let's say 911 there got staffed up and got resources to handle the call volume. Would this actually translate to better emergency services response? One assumes they're also all busy, all the time, no?

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#84

Post by GeekyBear »

rando444 wrote: post #41

For those not aware, enhanced 911 / 112 has existed in some way shape or form for almost the past 20 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_9-1-1

More specifically, this is an implementation of Enhanced 911, Phase 2. Support for Phase 2 will be required in the US next year.

911 service has gone through a few different capability upgrades.

Basic 911: You communicate the nature of the emergency and it's location by voice.

Enhanced 911: The call center receives your landline phone number and looks up your address from a database.

E911 Phase 1: The call center receives the mobile phone number and the location of the cell tower taking the call.

E911 Phase 2: The call center receives the mobile phone number and the phone's location.

http://www.marioncoks.net/Departments/EmergencyCommunication...

Apple is simply implementing the new standard here.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#85

Post by dpark »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #75
dpark wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't grasp this logic. Apple builds a feature to help with 911 services so they should fund 911 services? Apple also implemented Amber Alert support. Should they fund the Amber Alert system, too? Aren't emergency services pretty clearly the government's job? You already pay a fee on your cell bill specifically to cover the cost of 911 services to your local and state governments.

Edit: Benjammer’s response is superior to mine. Yes, large device manufacturers should help fund the infrastructure they build product support into their products for. You might disagree with my opinion, but I don’t see the opinion as being wildly out of line. If Apple doesn’t fund it, and per mobile line 911 taxes don’t cover it, everyone’s taxes have to go up to support Apples enhanced feature and the marketing goo…

I'm just at a loss. This is literally what taxes are for.

If you want to argue that Apple et al should have to pay for their use of, e.g., GPS, I could understand that. (Not agree, but understand.) GPS has enabled high-value features to be built into Apple's products. On the other hand, Amber alert and 911 service support are literally mandated by the government. Apple cannot choose to not include them. (Though in this case, they could choose to not support RapidSOS, at least until it's mandated as well.)

Edit: And yes, it seems entirely fair that taxes could go up to enable additional government services.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#86

Post by Benjammer »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #13
ajeet_dhaliwal wrote: post #2

Good for Apple for helping to save lives. As someone who's had to wait for an ambulance while someone is dying I understand how horrible that wait is and how desperately you want them to get to you as quickly as possible. The second part of this however is to ensure it's not open to abuse (by criminals or the government) for non emergency calls.

I’d like to see Apple help subsidize the cost of upgrading the software required in rural emergency call centers if it’s required to interoperate with this new feature (perhaps coming out of their corporate social responsibility budget).

Surprising but not surprising that this is getting so much hate on HN... So many people acting like public 911 municipal services should be expected to "out-compete" Apple, treating this like just another biz dev case study, like "Well, then why doesn't _the useless government_ upgrade their 911 to be as good as _Apple_ then, huh??

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#87

Post by bungie4 »

I work in 911, Telematics, alarm, PERS space. We are a PSAP (Public Safety Answer Point)

The device might send a Geocode, but reverse geo-coding (turning a long/lat into a human readable place) is a highly inaccurate thing. Secondly, most responders have no means of turning a long/lat into a point on the map, short of using their personal phone. Next, altitude is not factored in. Imagine being in a downtown office building. If nobody is downstairs to guide responders, or if the caller was unable to speak, they will have a really difficult time determining just which building/floor you are in.

Its all gotten much worse with the advent of mobile/VOIP and now, WIFI phone systems where your phone can move. Its a system ill equipped to handle it.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#88

Post by toomuchtodo »

dpark wrote: post #85
toomuchtodo wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Edit: Benjammer’s response is superior to mine. Yes, large device manufacturers should help fund the infrastructure they build product support into their products for. You might disagree with my opinion, but I don’t see the opinion as being wildly out of line. If Apple doesn’t fund it, and per mobile line 911 taxes don’t cover it, everyone’s taxes have to go up to support Apples enhanced feature and the marketing goo…

I'm just at a loss. This is literally what taxes are for. If you want to argue that Apple et al should have to pay for their use of, e.g., GPS, I could understand that. (Not agree, but understand.) GPS has enabled high-value features to be built into Apple's products. On the other hand, Amber alert and 911 service support are literally mandated by the government. Apple cannot choose to not include them. (Though in th…

> This is literally what taxes are for.

It is, but everyone has been avoiding taxes, so here we are with a supposedly first world country with third world infrastructure. Hence, my suggestion.

You have to engineer for the world we have, not a perfect world.

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#89

Post by nxc18 »

VonGuard wrote: post #63

Oakland needs this help so badly. Call 911 on a cell in Oakland, and you're going to wait on hold for 30 minutes, most of which will be you being transfered to the wrong departments over and over. You start at a call center somewhere in middle America with a person who does not know where Oakland is. They pass you to CA CHP, who don't know Oakland either, because their dispatcher on the line is out of Sacramento. Fin…

This is fucked. You should never have to wait for a 911 call to be answered. Our society needs to do better.

Can you share any insight into how things got so bad? What failure of politics or market forces led to this situation? What needs to change before everyone who needs help can get it when they need it?

Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls

#90

Post by Terretta »

bungie4 wrote: post #87

I work in 911, Telematics, alarm, PERS space. We are a PSAP (Public Safety Answer Point) The device might send a Geocode, but reverse geo-coding (turning a long/lat into a human readable place) is a highly inaccurate thing. Secondly, most responders have no means of turning a long/lat into a point on the map, short of using their personal phone. Next, altitude is not factored in. Imagine being in a downtown office bu…

> ”reverse geo-coding, turning a lat/long into a human readable place highly inaccurate ... no means of turning a lat/long into a point on the map”

Three words for you ...

https://what3words.com

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