How does this differ from the existing system? I thought your cell carrier would already use GPS if it was available to communicate your location to the 911 call center, and route it to the appropriate call center?
Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls
51–60 of 268 posts
Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think it's possible to make an anonymous 911 call unless you're using a public phone. I think this is ok, since 911 is specifically for emergencies and you generally want the police/EMS to know where you are immediately since seconds can count. I think of it a bit like implied consent in first aid: by calling 911 you are inherently consenting for your location to be shared since it is likely you are in some f…
Buy a cheap phone with cash. Call 911.
Better yet, use the victim's phone if possible.
Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
Imagine the call is from a gay bar (or the vicinity). The data leaks. Now coworkers know, none of them are okay with it (even if they never confirm their assumptions), and there are no legal protections when they get fired. There are a lot of non-obvious ways seemingly-innocent data can harm marginalized groups.
Your phone already has your location through a number of means, it’s not like 911 is suddenly creating this fact. If you’re going incognito, and you have your phone on you, you’re not incognito.
I'm not okay with that either. Just because data is already collected for one purpose doesn't mean we have to accept further encroachments on privacy. Every one increases the surface area of risk for a dangerous leak.
Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls
#54I'm reading almost near universal praise. Isn't this essentially a "back door" to location services, only accessible to law enforcement? Sounds ... familiar. It gets worse/better(?) Apple's upcoming 911 feature relies on technology from RapidSOS, a New York startup. The approach developed by Apple and RapidSOS sends location data from an iPhone to a "clearinghouse" accessible to emergency calling centers. Only the 91…
If the text you quoted is accurate, the data is only accessible to emergency calling centers, so no, unless they are lying neither company can see your location. Perhaps it’s encrypted, a bit like sending an iMessage to the 9/11 dispatcher, or some other means of anonymization is used.
Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
An anonymous 911 call is possible if the phone itself is anonymous. 911 will always get your phone number, to make call-backs possible.
Really how? Remember you don't need a number or SIM or service to call 911.
If you have no number, I'm sure they'll get some placeholder and callbacks won't work. They'll also get your approximate location if you're calling from a cell.
Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls
#56I must be missing something, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_9-1-1 Hasn't 911 location been shared via gps location in pretty much every cellphone for the past decade? I remember shitty verizon kyocera clamshells advertising gps for 911 in like 2004.
The accuracy and timing requirements are terrible and still use some combination of radio location and raw cellular data. Some extracts from the article you linked:
> Wireless network operators must provide the latitude and longitude of callers within 300 meters, within six minutes of a request by a PSAP.
> Code division multiple access (CDMA) networks tend to use handset-based radiolocation technologies, which are technically more similar to radionavigation.
> Mobile phone users may also have a selection to permit location information to be sent to non-emergency phone numbers or data networks, so that it can help people who are simply lost or want other location-based services.
Presumably Apple is going to share their Wifi-assisted data instead of raw GPS signal or radiolocation data.
Looking at my location in a dense urban zone, 300m would narrow my location down to roughly 300 houses. Good enough to get emergency services on the way, not nearly good enough to render assistance if the caller can't speak/doesn't know where they are.
Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls
#57I'm reading almost near universal praise. Isn't this essentially a "back door" to location services, only accessible to law enforcement? Sounds ... familiar. It gets worse/better(?) Apple's upcoming 911 feature relies on technology from RapidSOS, a New York startup. The approach developed by Apple and RapidSOS sends location data from an iPhone to a "clearinghouse" accessible to emergency calling centers. Only the 91…
A lot of apps allow location services at all times.
Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’d like to see Apple help subsidize the cost of upgrading the software required in rural emergency call centers if it’s required to interoperate with this new feature (perhaps coming out of their corporate social responsibility budget).
I mean, sure, if Apple wants to spend their money upgrading rural 911 call centers, good for them. But do you feel that it's reasonable to expect this, and if so, why?
Because without the call center support, their marketing of it as a feature in iOS 12 is a moot point.
“Look at this awesome life saving feature that only works in wealthy parts of the US!”
Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls
#59Will it be possible to make an anonymous 911 call? There can be scenarios, I think, where we (society) do not want to deter someone from reporting an emergency due to fear of being identified. Off the top of my head, consider a situation involving organized crime taking place, where call centre staff (or law enforcement) may be compelled to leak the identity of a witness.
There's no such thing as an anonymous cellphone call. Period. If you want to report organized crime that involves the upper echelons of power, don't use cellphones at all .
> There's no such thing as an anonymous cellphone call. Period.
I think that depends on which country you're in. In some places it's possible to buy a phone and SIM card with cash while wearing a baseball cap and hoody, and if you're prepared to pay huge pre-pay roaming charges you could use that phone in countries where it's not so easy to obtain a phone anonymously. Authorities will get a log of approximately where the phone was whenever it was switched on, so you'd only switch it on while calling from a crowded place. It's not perfect, but is it worse than restricting yourself to public telephones?
Re: Apple sets up iPhones to relay location for 911 calls
#60I'm reading almost near universal praise. Isn't this essentially a "back door" to location services, only accessible to law enforcement? Sounds ... familiar. It gets worse/better(?) Apple's upcoming 911 feature relies on technology from RapidSOS, a New York startup. The approach developed by Apple and RapidSOS sends location data from an iPhone to a "clearinghouse" accessible to emergency calling centers. Only the 91…
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