Study: Today’s dads are engaging more with their kids • Hacker News Board

Re: Study: Today’s dads are engaging more with their kids

#121

Post by to_bpr » Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 3:58 PM UTC

workinthehead wrote: post #116

sulam wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d like you to try doing a mental exercise and see if you feel okay with what you’ve written here. s/pregnant/cancer/ and then ask yourself if you would feel comfortable inquiring about medical history during the hiring process.

Most people would if it was socially permissible. We're talking about running a business, not a safe space.

>We're talking about running a business, not a safe space.

Most seem to have become disconnected with this reality in the era of our massively inflated economy (and tech industry).

It will be interesting to see the absolute meltdown that occurs when the next recession rolls around/investment moves on from tech.

Re: Study: Today’s dads are engaging more with their kids

#122

Post by to_bpr » Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 3:59 PM UTC

aikinai wrote: post #34

rconti wrote: post #7

My employer just increased their family leave from 12 weeks to 20 weeks, which is a great perk. These days nobody seems to differentiate from maternity vs paternity leave, which is a great idea because, aside from the value it provides fathers, it also gets rid of the idea that the mother should get more time because mothers should be more involved. (alas, you can argue that it ignores the physical sacrifices the mot…

Google has a cool system where everyone with a new child gets (very long and equal) parental leave. If you physically give birth, you get extra time for preparation and recovery (e.g. men and women adopting, etc. don’t get it). I think this is a good way to recognize the extra burden of parents who give birth while being fair on the parenting front.

>everyone with a new child gets (very long and equal) parental leave.

Is offered or is forced to take?

Re: Study: Today’s dads are engaging more with their kids

#123

Post by to_bpr » Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 4:03 PM UTC

watwut wrote: post #68

theatrics109 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you work in tech, you're not dealing with typical masculine behavior. Much of the anti-male sentiment in tech is from men (from the perspective of women) getting/internalizing the rewards of being successful without acting like a successful man. Men normally are able to control their negative emotions, but you're right that women can be dichotomous, especially in tech. You can predict it if you know why and how th…

There is no more manly profession then working in tech for collage educated people. People are literally choosing tech because, and I am quoting here, "it is good job for a boy". I mean, it is good job, but boys are not loosing masculinity by doing tech at all. Quite the opposite. Men in tech are somewhat more introverted then the rest. They are not more emotional nor feminine then actors, writers, sales or literally…

>There is no more manly profession then working in tech for collage educated people.

Please state the culture for context. This is absolutely not the case in the West.

Re: Study: Today’s dads are engaging more with their kids

#124

Post by to_bpr » Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 4:06 PM UTC

ponderatul wrote: post #65

Yetanfou wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this field - sociology - and the humanities in general have become so much politicised that it is very hard to find articles on subjects like these which do not read like an action plan for some or other political group. While I could not get the article through Wiley I did find it on Sci-Hub: http://sci-hub.tw/https://doi.org/10.1111/jomf.12476 And yes, with lines like "... Given that hegemonic masculinity p…

I can't understand why your comment has been downvoted.

Unfortunately, HackerNews has had a significant influx of users over the last 18-24 months from other sites that shan't be named, and it has resulted in the same toxic behaviour/tribalism/feels-based-voting that exists on the site the same people discovered HN on.

I believe we're at the point where HN may need to reconsider the visibility of the voting system here, again unfortunately.

Re: Study: Today’s dads are engaging more with their kids

#125

Post by amelius » Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 4:31 PM UTC

pavel_lishin wrote: post #96

amelius wrote: post #73

Hypothesis: Today's dads behave more like kids, compared to previous generations. I mean, 40 year olds dress like teenagers (sneakers, t-shirt, jeans, sometimes a cap), they often have the same hobbies as teenagers (e.g. video gaming), and responsibility is low because there is a high level of social security.

> because there is a high level of social security. Not in America.

In a broader sense there is: if you lose your job, it's easy to find a new one.

Re: Study: Today’s dads are engaging more with their kids

#126

Post by mi100hael » Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 4:59 PM UTC

zxcmx wrote: post #30

mi100hael wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spanking is considered to be a "toxic" display of masculinity these days?

It’s against the law in New Zealand for example. You may restrain a child for their safety but the use of force for “parental correction” is treated as assault and can be prosecuted. The police are encouraged to apply discretion.

That's pretty absurd. There's a huge difference between smacking a kid's backside as punishment and actually causing physical harm.

Furthermore, huge swaths of the population have grown up with the occasional spanking and somehow managed to avoid PTSD or other emotional/mental problems.

Labeling it a "toxic masculine" practice is idiocy.

Re: Study: Today’s dads are engaging more with their kids

#127

Post by sctb » Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 5:11 PM UTC

workinthehead wrote: post #117

amyjess wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, this just fuels my dislike of startups. Startup culture is toxic by nature. My advice is this: companies need to suck it up. We live in a society with rules and laws for a reason. If your business can't exist under those rules and laws, then it doesn't belong in society. Ventures that are detrimental to society simply shouldn't be allowed.

There is a giant, giant disconnect between "following laws" and "detrimental to society to the point where it needs to be forcibly prevented" and it doesn't speak well to your ability to reason that you've conflated the two.

Personal attacks have no business on Hacker News. If you're going to comment, you need to leave those out.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Study: Today’s dads are engaging more with their kids

#128

Post by sulam » Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 5:15 PM UTC

workinthehead wrote: post #116

sulam wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d like you to try doing a mental exercise and see if you feel okay with what you’ve written here. s/pregnant/cancer/ and then ask yourself if you would feel comfortable inquiring about medical history during the hiring process.

Most people would if it was socially permissible. We're talking about running a business, not a safe space.

Socially permissible is code for things that people approve or disapprove of as a general rule. Your business will not do very well if you do these socially impermissible things. People will not want to work for you if they have other choices, which means you will have the bottom of the employee barrel, customers will not want to hire you or use your products unless you make them much cheaper or better than the competition and that will negatively affect your margin and state and federal agencies will realize you’re a popular target and file suit for the employer discrimination you’ve outlined above. Good luck in your future endeavors, because you will need it.

Re: Study: Today’s dads are engaging more with their kids

#129

Post by XorNot » Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 6:43 PM UTC

TangoTrotFox wrote: post #66

XorNot wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it's the rise of all these men who use weasel words rather then presenting their argument and responding to criticism?

This is perhaps the point. In science critiquing ideas is not what you do, at least beyond ensuring that they are logically consistent. Instead, you critique results. Relativity is something that, intuitively, sounds completely foolish and plainly absurd. Yet it is absolutely and completely correct, so far as we can currently determine. Or take penicillin - that treating infections with something that emerges as a by…

Whoosh!

Re: Study: Today’s dads are engaging more with their kids

#130

Post by pavel_lishin » Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 7:00 PM UTC

amelius wrote: post #125

pavel_lishin wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because there is a high level of social security. Not in America.

In a broader sense there is: if you lose your job, it's easy to find a new one.

Yeah, if you're a software developer with the right job skills who's personable enough to fit in with a team.

But tell that to the soon-to-be-homeless dev who posted this morning, tell that to people who aren't in our industry, tell it to minimum-wage earners, tell that to people in Bumbleshit, Nebraska.