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Study: Today’s dads are engaging more with their kids

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Re: Study: Today’s dads are engaging more with their kids

#21

Post by cimmanom »

mi100hael wrote: post #11
cimmanom wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That extra paternity leave can give the dad the opportunity to be around to assist the mom while she's recovering from the birth - which helps her too. (And recovering emotionally as well as physically - post-partum depression can be paralyzing.) It's just too bad that there's no way to offer an equivalent benefit for women without partners to provide them the same sort of support.

I don't follow what you're lamenting. That women without partners lack partners?

I guess I'm saying that the only women that paternity leave is unfair to in any way are those who lack partners.

Not that there's any simple solution to that. Maybe in a society that believed in social safety nets some sort of home aide could be available during the first few weeks.

Re: Study: Today’s dads are engaging more with their kids

#22

Post by 52-6F-62 »

philipkglass wrote: post #3

My dad lost his job when I was 7 years old and my sister was 5. He went through 5 years of un- and under-employment. It was harrowing for him and my mom. But he also said in his later years that he would not have been there to see his kids growing up if he'd maintained the steady career progression that he originally expected. I have many fond memories of doing things with my dad during those years. He showed me how…

You were very lucky in more ways than the one. That's a great story, though. Those kinds of memories and meaning in your work are priceless.

My father was overworking most of the time due to his career as a pipefitter for Imperial Oil. He spent two terms unemployed— once when we moved to our small SW Ontario town (long story why), and another during an illness that lasted about a year. Because my mother had left her career in insurance to look after us, our college savings were depleted (the last thing they touched to make payments). I don't remember the times he was unemployed very much. Much of my family was ill at the same time he was and I spent a lot of time looking after them (with my thoroughly tough mother)— otherwise he was driving an 2-3 hours round-trip to the union hall every day to try and find contract work. So I didn't see much of the guy when I was young, and when I did he was exhausted and often cranky. There were some great moments in there, and he still taught me as much as he could while I was there, but I'm just remarking on the work and unemployment and family time thing.

Funnily, I got into programming because my mother had an [name I don't remember] 80286 from her work as an insurance analyst and I dug right into that machine. Then the internet finally came to town...

..

Really, thanks for sharing that.

Re: Study: Today’s dads are engaging more with their kids

#23

Post by bobwaycott »

Karishma1234 wrote: post #18
ksenzee wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were studying fathers, so their denominator was fathers, not children. There's plenty of research showing that fathers make a big difference in their children's lives and happiness. From what I can tell this study doesn't speak to that one way or the other.

My point has been that even though fathers are spending more time with children on an average all children are receiving lesser fatherly attention on an average. May be fathers who love children are staying in marriage thus giving a bias to the whole study.

Many of us fathers who spend a lot of time with our children are single.

Re: Study: Today’s dads are engaging more with their kids

#24

Post by delbel »

evilantnie wrote: post #10
delbel wrote: post #6

I was trying to understand andrewclunn now dead comment below. Basically he was saying there was no need for the author of the article (not the study) to write "toxic masculinity" narrative. When I clicked on the PDF, to scan for the word "toxic" I was unable to open the PDF. Did the author of the article Jon McBride artificially put this narrative spin on the study? If so, I don't understand why somebody would do th…

I don't see the comment you're referring to, but McBride was quoting one of the authors of the study. Technically this isn't "spin", Toxic Masculinity and Hegemonic Masculinity are both fields of study in psychology having to do with promotion of dominance and violence. I think both fields influenced this study. It looks like they developed a Parent-Child-Conflict scale that included spanking, hitting, or threatening…

I had to look up Hegemonic Masculinity, and I think I definitely know somebody with this trait (if it is valid) -- one of my employees. I hired him specifically to deal with problems with other employees as a manager. Part of his job he leaves early to coach soccer (which they are doing good, going to state). His children are great and he is completely engaged on a daily basis (they all live on a large farm, if that makes this different) so this is inconsistent with what I know. I wonder how they screened fathers and categorized them, I can't find the actual text of the study.

Re: Study: Today’s dads are engaging more with their kids

#25

Post by NDizzle »

I left the bay area in 2013 when my third kid was born. I'm about 110 miles north now.

I expected that as I withdrew from long office hours, replacing it with remote work, my income stagnate (or go down). The opposite happened - my income has actually gone up steadily.

Towards the point of this topic - I have been able to spend a lot of time with my kids. We walk (or bike) to and from school, I coach sports, and I'm able to see all of the recitals, performances, and various events. My kids are age 12, 7, and 5 for those wondering.

I do work quite a bit, but the work is performed at odd hours, and not during prime family hours. It helps to find companies that is geared towards projects and your performance over the long or medium term, rather than people who want to see butts-in-chairs when they are at the office.

I encourage everyone to try to replace their commutes with more time with loved ones. Move your working hours around, if at all possible.

Re: Study: Today’s dads are engaging more with their kids

#26

Post by chrisseaton »

cimmanom wrote: post #21
mi100hael wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't follow what you're lamenting. That women without partners lack partners?

I guess I'm saying that the only women that paternity leave is unfair to in any way are those who lack partners. Not that there's any simple solution to that. Maybe in a society that believed in social safety nets some sort of home aide could be available during the first few weeks.

> I guess I'm saying that the only women that paternity leave is unfair to in any way are those who lack partners.

It's not partner leave, it's paternity leave.

> some sort of home aide could be available during the first few weeks

Men don't take paternity leave solely to be 'home aide' - they're taking the time to bond with their new children.

Re: Study: Today’s dads are engaging more with their kids

#27

Post by cimmanom »

chrisseaton wrote: post #26
cimmanom wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I'm saying that the only women that paternity leave is unfair to in any way are those who lack partners. Not that there's any simple solution to that. Maybe in a society that believed in social safety nets some sort of home aide could be available during the first few weeks.

> I guess I'm saying that the only women that paternity leave is unfair to in any way are those who lack partners. It's not partner leave, it's paternity leave. > some sort of home aide could be available during the first few weeks Men don't take paternity leave solely to be 'home aide' - they're taking the time to bond with their new children.

No. For most women it's awesome that men get paternity leave.

@rconti suggested that equal paternity leave might be unfair because of the additional physical costs that women pay to give birth; I was disagreeing with that, saying that if anything paternity adds value for those women.

Paternity leave even adds value for women who will never have children, because it undercuts any argument that prefers hiring men over women because of parental leave.

The only women it doesn't add much value for are those without partners. "Unfair" is probably the wrong term. They're simply put at a disadvantage relative to other mothers as a result.

Re: Study: Today’s dads are engaging more with their kids

#28

Post by philipkglass »

52-6F-62 wrote: post #22
philipkglass wrote: post #3

My dad lost his job when I was 7 years old and my sister was 5. He went through 5 years of un- and under-employment. It was harrowing for him and my mom. But he also said in his later years that he would not have been there to see his kids growing up if he'd maintained the steady career progression that he originally expected. I have many fond memories of doing things with my dad during those years. He showed me how…

You were very lucky in more ways than the one. That's a great story, though. Those kinds of memories and meaning in your work are priceless. My father was overworking most of the time due to his career as a pipefitter for Imperial Oil. He spent two terms unemployed— once when we moved to our small SW Ontario town (long story why ), and another during an illness that lasted about a year. Because my mother had left her…

You were very lucky in more ways than the one.

Most definitely. I get a bit of existential vertigo when I think about how much of my often-happy life has depended on luck. It intensifies when I consider how many of those lucky circumstances were determined before my birth.

Re: Study: Today’s dads are engaging more with their kids

#29

Post by chrisseaton »

cimmanom wrote: post #27
chrisseaton wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I guess I'm saying that the only women that paternity leave is unfair to in any way are those who lack partners. It's not partner leave, it's paternity leave. > some sort of home aide could be available during the first few weeks Men don't take paternity leave solely to be 'home aide' - they're taking the time to bond with their new children.

No. For most women it's awesome that men get paternity leave. @rconti suggested that equal paternity leave might be unfair because of the additional physical costs that women pay to give birth; I was disagreeing with that, saying that if anything paternity adds value for those women. Paternity leave even adds value for women who will never have children, because it undercuts any argument that prefers hiring men over…

> They're simply put at a disadvantage relative to other mothers as a result.

How on earth are they put at a disadvantage that someone who does not exist, and so does not need the benefit, does not get that benefit?

And more broadly is it nice to talk about someone else getting a benefit that they need as being putting people who do not get it at a 'disadvantage'?

Are you disadvantaged that people who can't walk get wheelchairs?

Re: Study: Today’s dads are engaging more with their kids

#30

Post by zxcmx »

mi100hael wrote: post #13
evilantnie wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see the comment you're referring to, but McBride was quoting one of the authors of the study. Technically this isn't "spin", Toxic Masculinity and Hegemonic Masculinity are both fields of study in psychology having to do with promotion of dominance and violence. I think both fields influenced this study. It looks like they developed a Parent-Child-Conflict scale that included spanking, hitting, or threatening…

Spanking is considered to be a "toxic" display of masculinity these days?

It’s against the law in New Zealand for example.

You may restrain a child for their safety but the use of force for “parental correction” is treated as assault and can be prosecuted. The police are encouraged to apply discretion.

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