Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors • Hacker News Board

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#121

Post by sytelus » Sun, Jun 10, 2018, 5:04 AM UTC

joshe wrote: post #108

weiming wrote: post #22

The article doesn't mention, but Japan also took steps to make immigration easier for skilled workers with the Highly-Skilled Foreign Professional visa [1] based on this point system [2]. Can even qualify for permanent residency in as little as one year if you score 80+ points. [1] http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/newimmiact_3/en/ [2] http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/newimmiact_3/en/pdf/171110_leaflet...

Pulling out the hacker part: 40 points for > 10 million yen salary ($91,000) 10 for a bachelors 20 for a masters 30 for a phd 20 for 10 years experience 15 for 7 years experience 10 for 5 years experience 5 for 3 years experience age 15 for And bonuses for language proficiency, working for small-medium companies that spend on R and D (startups?) and holding a foreign qualification. With the right salary ($91K/year):…

Wow! That throws much of the western world out of the water. I'm wondering if there is any requirement for continued residency. For example, in US if you don't live 6 months out of a year in US then you risk your green card getting cancelled.

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#122

Post by pheon » Sun, Jun 10, 2018, 5:09 AM UTC

PhantomGremlin wrote: post #70

pheon wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Peanuts. Japans labor market structure is based on the army/military mode of operation. Imagine your skilled with a riffle because.. you like to shoot stuff out on the farm. Sign up for the army and you will be shipped to bootcamp where they teach you how to shoot "correctly", polish your shoes and make your bed and most importantly chain of command. Note: commanding office says jump, you say how high. You have your…

Its better to hold a meeting with the team, to clarify what the grenade is, check all possible outcomes, investigate every tiny detail by which time everyone is dead. Key point is everyone This was also my experience working for a US subsidiary of a Japanese multinational. They do things very very deliberately. Which in some fields is a good thing. But that doesn't work all that well when competing against companies…

Yup, there are exceptional engineering talent in these mega corps, rare but it does exist. Usually the talent gets filtered by Division X progression. Eventually the best end up in Division 1, which is good but it takes a long time for this process to do its magic... but thats ok you`ve signed up for 30 years of service.

Thats the theory, sometimes it works in practice, sometimes other shit screws it all up.

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#123

Post by bobthepanda » Sun, Jun 10, 2018, 5:11 AM UTC

jaredklewis wrote: post #75

bobthepanda wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that in the West we generally do not use ethnicity or race as a criteria to deny people things as official policy. Affirmative action, for example, just makes it more likely for certain people to get picked out of a general qualifying pool, but it doesn't disqualify non-preferred people out of hand.

When is race used to deny people things in Japan?

Koreans in Japan had their citizenship revoked in 1952 and have issues receiving promotions and access to pensions: http://tbinternet.ohchr.org/Treaties/CERD/Shared%20Documents...

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#124

Post by jaredklewis » Sun, Jun 10, 2018, 5:38 AM UTC

bobthepanda wrote: post #123

jaredklewis wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When is race used to deny people things in Japan?

Koreans in Japan had their citizenship revoked in 1952 and have issues receiving promotions and access to pensions: http://tbinternet.ohchr.org/Treaties/CERD/Shared%20Documents...

Oh yea, I agree that this discrimination existed for sure, and continues a little bit today (though obviously has improved a lot).

I guess I was more asserting it doesn’t happen to white people.

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#125

Post by baybal2 » Sun, Jun 10, 2018, 5:56 AM UTC

weiming wrote: post #22

The article doesn't mention, but Japan also took steps to make immigration easier for skilled workers with the Highly-Skilled Foreign Professional visa [1] based on this point system [2]. Can even qualify for permanent residency in as little as one year if you score 80+ points. [1] http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/newimmiact_3/en/ [2] http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/newimmiact_3/en/pdf/171110_leaflet...

Around 2 years ago, I was reached by a Rakuten recruiter. I think, I should've given more consideration to the proposal than a straight refusal.

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#126

Post by baybal2 » Sun, Jun 10, 2018, 6:03 AM UTC

the_new_guy29 wrote: post #55

forkLding wrote: post #6

Not surprised, this is what happens when you "close" off immigration, aging population, have a decrease in new births, restrict most immigrant workers/immigrants to temporary visas/temporary work terms despite length of stay and have a politically conservative mentality towards immigrants. You either invest into more technologies that allow for less labour input or you basically have to somehow increase labour input.…

They are still closed for 99% of people who would like to immmigrate there. They only need highly skilled profesionals, not masses for cheap. Best part is Japan just doesn't care if other countries see it as racist nation - they still get going strong. And im 100% sure if anyone if going to find a solution to ever growing needs of capitalism without immigration it would be them.

Half of Russian workforce have higher education, and uninterrupted employment history from high school to crematorium chamber. Most had advanced degrees is what West calls STEM. With most highschoolers having better math skills than first year math major students in the West.

According to economic theorists, Russia must be steamrolling every other high-tech economy out there, but you see the reality is different.

Fixation on "skilled professionals" is a biggest blunder of the West. Western higher education borders being worthless in its majority, yet all and every takes such pride in it as to deny immigration based on this "class attribute" which is higher education.

A guy who can till fields, and have few grams of grey matter to know how to dose fertilizers is freaking valuable for any economy.

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#127

Post by timr » Sun, Jun 10, 2018, 6:09 AM UTC

cdavid wrote: post #117

lev99 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A tech job making 10M yen in Japan is a very different experience than a tech job in the US making 100k+ a year.

You need to make 10M JPY in your job before coming to Japan.

According to the forms, it's the salary from the "principal accepting organization" that matters (i.e. the Japanese salary).

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#128

Post by xref » Sun, Jun 10, 2018, 6:17 AM UTC

adventured wrote: post #116

craftyguy wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in the US, there are quite a few folks who are openly hostile towards immigrants.

US population: ~60% white non-hispanic, 20% hispanic, 14% black, 6% Asian Japan: 98.5% ethnic Japanese Immigrants in the US + their US born children = 27% of the population, roughly 86 million people, or equal to 3/4 the size of Japan's entire population. Such hostility.

I'm unclear how these numbers prove there isn't hostility towards immigrants in the US?

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#129

Post by glandium » Sun, Jun 10, 2018, 6:59 AM UTC

jaredklewis wrote: post #110

icelancer wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? How about trying to rent property. Landlords overwhelmingly deny non-Nihojin non-salarymen.

While I don't doubt there are landlords out there that would deny foreigners an apartment, my experience is that: - It is not "overwhelmingly." I would guess a very small number of landlords consider anything other than the tenet's potential to make rent every month and how long they will stay. - Even in the aforementioned cases, it is not racial and has more to do with perception of foreigners (that we can't sort ga…

(I live in Japan, anecdata, etc.)

FWIW, my landlord switched from requiring a guarantor to going through an insurance that acts as one. So that moves the risk assessment to the insurance company, which may or may not have less bias. I hear this kind of setup is getting more common.

Anyways, having been on the recipient end of "landlords deny foreigner", I can attest that it's overwhelmingly economics driven, and not racism.

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#130

Post by greggman » Sun, Jun 10, 2018, 7:24 AM UTC

weiming wrote: post #28

volgo wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But ethnicity, not just nationality, seems to matter a lot in Japan The correct modern terminology for that is racism. Something most people don't know a lot about, because as a culture Japanese tend to be very outwardly polite so a lot of racism is very subtle and can't be spotted by someone who's just visiting.

I find it funny that most of Western sentiment about Japan is very boolean: it's either "Japan is a mythical, enchanting land you must visit, great food and lovely people" or "Japan has a rapidly aging population, things are tough, and they are also racist." Why not accept that it's a huge country with 120M people and a multitude of experiences?

Japan is like any place and has good (eg safety) and bad (eg sexism). if I'm praising Japan on safety that doesn't mean I don't know it's bad parts. It's just I shouldn't have to bring them up if they aren't on topic.

The problem from my pov is people get defensive when someone says "Japan is great. it's so much safer than the US it makes the US feel like a 3rd world country" which is true IMO and it's said to emphasize how the US (and many other countries) take for granted the amount of crime. And sadly instead of getting the intended message which is "the level of crime you live with in the USA is something to be fixed" instead they resort to pointing out the bad parts of Japan so they can ignore the harsh conclusion.