Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

asia.nikkei.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 168 posts

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#71

Post by bobthepanda »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #56
volgo wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But ethnicity, not just nationality, seems to matter a lot in Japan The correct modern terminology for that is racism. Something most people don't know a lot about, because as a culture Japanese tend to be very outwardly polite so a lot of racism is very subtle and can't be spotted by someone who's just visiting.

The way that Japanese treat outsiders is so far from the popular Western ideal of what 'racism' means that I'd argue the term barely applies. 'Racism' is a loaded term that has little meaning in most situations because it entirely depends on context. Sure, if someone is calling a black guy the n-world, well then yes, we can safely use that term. But if we consider that the vast majority of the world is inherently eth…

The difference is that in the West we generally do not use ethnicity or race as a criteria to deny people things as official policy. Affirmative action, for example, just makes it more likely for certain people to get picked out of a general qualifying pool, but it doesn't disqualify non-preferred people out of hand.

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#72

Post by jaredklewis »

lovemenot wrote: post #63
jaredklewis wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every other career is limited to 5-10 years stay in Japan with restrictions on staying with an employer and difficulties in bringing a spouse and how much that spouse can work once there - it's much more of a temporary thing as described in the article versus paths available to immigrants to the USA. I know people in Tokyo with working visas who are architects, waiters, dish washers, cooks, English teachers, academ…

That figure of 10 years for a probably successful permanent residency application is out of date. It's apparently more like 5 years these days.

Interesting. I know a guy that got it in 6 but he was married to a Japanese, so I wasn’t sure if that figured in somehow.

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#73

Post by honestoHeminway »

knuththetruth wrote: post #67
sonnyblarney wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way that Japanese treat outsiders is so far from the popular Western ideal of what 'racism' means that I'd argue the term barely applies. 'Racism' is a loaded term that has little meaning in most situations because it entirely depends on context. Sure, if someone is calling a black guy the n-world, well then yes, we can safely use that term. But if we consider that the vast majority of the world is inherently eth…

>The way the Japanese treat outsiders needs a whole other term of it's own, really. It’s called xenophobia, of which their various forms of racism are just articulations thereof.

If the world is not easy, take a knife and cut until it is easy? Does not matter if the quest to make it easy, black and white so to speak, does more damage then good.

People are put out of there comfort zones by having people around them, who look totally different then their own mirror image. It happens, because it crashes the mirror-neurons we have - you get difficulties comparing your self image with somebody who looks totally different. Never mind that the whole process is a total delusion, basically everyone hallucinating that everyone else is a carbon copy of the self.

Some signals overide this behaviour (baby-stereo types, big eyes, etc.) but for most people getting put outside your comfort zone, becoming aware that there might be not only other people, but also totally strange mindsets, is deeply distressing. And if you look at the past history - of nearly all of the world, and the list of missing explorerers - rightfully so.

It can be overcome, partially, but never completely. Of course, acceptance and the applying of widespread workarounds (like the only text based internet) - would deprive political partys of the aggitation-steam theire engine relies on.

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#74

Post by sonnyblarney »

knuththetruth wrote: post #67
sonnyblarney wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way that Japanese treat outsiders is so far from the popular Western ideal of what 'racism' means that I'd argue the term barely applies. 'Racism' is a loaded term that has little meaning in most situations because it entirely depends on context. Sure, if someone is calling a black guy the n-world, well then yes, we can safely use that term. But if we consider that the vast majority of the world is inherently eth…

>The way the Japanese treat outsiders needs a whole other term of it's own, really. It’s called xenophobia, of which their various forms of racism are just articulations thereof.

Though 'xenophobia' is a considerably better term than 'racism', I still don't think the world aptly captures the situation.

The Japanese do not generally hate, fear or disdain outsiders (though surely this exists, and has been the case historically) so much as they just think of themselves as different.

'Xenophobia' and 'racism' imply a degree of antagonism, derision, hatred etc., which isn't necessarily the case.

I'm English Canadian, I've lived around the world, I now live in Montreal Quebec where I'm an 'ethnic minority' among French Quebecers. There are many new immigrants to Quebec, and almost none of them want to speak French. They all want to speak English. I can assure you that 'Quebec' culture is quite different from the rest of North America, and if this situation continues, 'The Quebecois' will disappear and North America will be 'less diverse'. It's a paradox because the Quebecois are politically 'far left of centre' generally by North American standards, and are instinctively 'anti racist', 'pro migrant' in the political/intellectual sense, but they're also proud of their identity and culture, and the demographic issue looms large and real here as a real and tangible existential issue.

Terms like racism and xenophobia are useful, but are often poorly applied and cause misunderstanding.

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#75

Post by jaredklewis »

bobthepanda wrote: post #71
sonnyblarney wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way that Japanese treat outsiders is so far from the popular Western ideal of what 'racism' means that I'd argue the term barely applies. 'Racism' is a loaded term that has little meaning in most situations because it entirely depends on context. Sure, if someone is calling a black guy the n-world, well then yes, we can safely use that term. But if we consider that the vast majority of the world is inherently eth…

The difference is that in the West we generally do not use ethnicity or race as a criteria to deny people things as official policy. Affirmative action, for example, just makes it more likely for certain people to get picked out of a general qualifying pool, but it doesn't disqualify non-preferred people out of hand.

When is race used to deny people things in Japan?

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#76

Post by pietroglyph »

bobthepanda wrote: post #71
sonnyblarney wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way that Japanese treat outsiders is so far from the popular Western ideal of what 'racism' means that I'd argue the term barely applies. 'Racism' is a loaded term that has little meaning in most situations because it entirely depends on context. Sure, if someone is calling a black guy the n-world, well then yes, we can safely use that term. But if we consider that the vast majority of the world is inherently eth…

The difference is that in the West we generally do not use ethnicity or race as a criteria to deny people things as official policy. Affirmative action, for example, just makes it more likely for certain people to get picked out of a general qualifying pool, but it doesn't disqualify non-preferred people out of hand.

Even if it doesn't disqualify those people, it does disadvantage them individually.

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#77

Post by lovemenot »

jaredklewis wrote: post #72
lovemenot wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That figure of 10 years for a probably successful permanent residency application is out of date. It's apparently more like 5 years these days.

Interesting. I know a guy that got it in 6 but he was married to a Japanese, so I wasn’t sure if that figured in somehow.

My understanding is only based on hearsay. Anybody for whom this matters should probably consult an immigration lawyer.

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#78

Post by thomasfortes »

iguy wrote: post #8
majos wrote: post #2

I wonder what percentage of these immigrants are ethnically east/southeast Asian, or even ethnically Japanese. I imagine a large portion of the Peruvian and Brazilian immigrants shown in the chart have Japanese ancestry (I believe Japanese ancestry makes immigration from those countries easier -- to the extent that one point there was a black market in being adopted as an adult by Japanese people -- and there is a la…

TFA has a figure showing that just over half is China + Korea + Vietnam. Brazil + Peru are about 11%, it would indeed be interesting to know the breakdown there. Amused by the line "No party has embraced xenophobia", used here to mean, apparently, that all parties agree on policies which would be sufficient to get you branded as xenophobes in the west. Or rather, to mean that there's no shouting match over the issue.

Can't say about Peru, but the second and third generation Japanese community here in Brazil is massive and stories of some of them going to work/live at Japan are common.

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#80

Post by InfiniteBeing »

mikekchar wrote: post #61
volgo wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But ethnicity, not just nationality, seems to matter a lot in Japan The correct modern terminology for that is racism. Something most people don't know a lot about, because as a culture Japanese tend to be very outwardly polite so a lot of racism is very subtle and can't be spotted by someone who's just visiting.

Every time this pops up, I feel compelled to point out that in the 8 years I've lived in Japan (over a 10 year period), I haven't found this to be true. There is racism in Japan, just like everywhere. When I lived in Canada, I saw a sales manager where I was working throwing how CVs with Indian names. I asked him what he was doing. "There's no point in hiring someone whose name I can't even pronounce", was the reply.…

Well, a lot of the problems people in the USA have with certain groups has to do with those same cultural reasons.
Post reply on HN