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Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

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Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#51
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The kind of xenophobia you'll be facing is pretty tame compared to most other parts of the world though. Especially if you're a skilled worker from a developed country. Japanese are indifferent and non-confrontational. If you don't care about what people think and don't try to integrate too hard, life isn't bad.

Compared to where? Most of the world is China, India and Africa. The rest of the developed world is vastly better than Japan when it comes to treating immigrants better.

Here in the US, there are quite a few folks who are openly hostile towards immigrants.

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#52
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it is a lifelong stigmatization as well. You will never be one of them, no matter how hard you try.

You can never ever become Chinese either. Nor Indian. Nor Nigerian. Nor Russian. Never mind Kuwaiti. The exception here is the west, both in terminology used for people originating elsewhere, and in actual beliefs. [You, personally, may possibly have one exception on this list, roughly if you come from the edge of one of these, but never more.]

Plenty of Russians aren't Russian. As long as you speak Russian and don't look obviously non-white you can pass for one pretty easily.

As an extreme and over the top example: Stalin wasn't Russian.

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#53
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The kind of xenophobia you'll be facing is pretty tame compared to most other parts of the world though. Especially if you're a skilled worker from a developed country. Japanese are indifferent and non-confrontational. If you don't care about what people think and don't try to integrate too hard, life isn't bad.

Compared to where? Most of the world is China, India and Africa. The rest of the developed world is vastly better than Japan when it comes to treating immigrants better.

The experience of being a westerner in China is much worse than in Japan IME. I can’t speak for India or the continent of Africa, but in the latter case I’d guess that it varies widely by country.

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#54
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compared to where? Most of the world is China, India and Africa. The rest of the developed world is vastly better than Japan when it comes to treating immigrants better.

Here in the US, there are quite a few folks who are openly hostile towards immigrants.

In my experience there is a lot of hostility to undocumented immigrants (a.k.a illegal immigrants) but very little to people to immigrate legitimately.

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#55

Not surprised, this is what happens when you "close" off immigration, aging population, have a decrease in new births, restrict most immigrant workers/immigrants to temporary visas/temporary work terms despite length of stay and have a politically conservative mentality towards immigrants. You either invest into more technologies that allow for less labour input or you basically have to somehow increase labour input.…

They are still closed for 99% of people who would like to immmigrate there.

They only need highly skilled profesionals, not masses for cheap.

Best part is Japan just doesn't care if other countries see it as racist nation - they still get going strong. And im 100% sure if anyone if going to find a solution to ever growing needs of capitalism without immigration it would be them.

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#56
post #21
post #2

I wonder what percentage of these immigrants are ethnically east/southeast Asian, or even ethnically Japanese. I imagine a large portion of the Peruvian and Brazilian immigrants shown in the chart have Japanese ancestry (I believe Japanese ancestry makes immigration from those countries easier -- to the extent that one point there was a black market in being adopted as an adult by Japanese people -- and there is a la…

> But ethnicity, not just nationality, seems to matter a lot in Japan The correct modern terminology for that is racism. Something most people don't know a lot about, because as a culture Japanese tend to be very outwardly polite so a lot of racism is very subtle and can't be spotted by someone who's just visiting.

The way that Japanese treat outsiders is so far from the popular Western ideal of what 'racism' means that I'd argue the term barely applies.

'Racism' is a loaded term that has little meaning in most situations because it entirely depends on context.

Sure, if someone is calling a black guy the n-world, well then yes, we can safely use that term.

But if we consider that the vast majority of the world is inherently ethnocentric, then term 'racism' as a hard pejorative can only effectively be used in New World / Western / Anglosphere contexts, as elsewhere it would have an entirely different meaning.

The paradox of 'diversity' is that culture and ethnicity are the root basis of differentiation in this world, and without it, there literally is no 'diversity' - and yet, any general ideal which recognizes ethnicity is deemed 'racist' (in the pejorative sense), usually by New World / Western / Anglosphere types who generally lack perspective, in my view.

So, yes, Chinese treatment of non-Han types may be 'racist' in the ugliest sense, but it requires far more nuance than this simple term can imply.

The very essence of 'diverse' ideals should be founded upon respecting the fact that other groups have a different view of the world (and have different histories) than 'we' do; instead, we all to often end up with ideals of 'diversity' which amount to 'diversity of skin colour and last name' and utter conformity on all other levels.

The way the Japanese treat outsiders needs a whole other term of it's own, really.

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The state sanctioned Chinese language literally does not have a word for "ethnicnically foreign permanent resident/citizen of China"

That would sound a little more convincing if you hadn't taken six words to define the concept in English.

"American" is the term in the US because it's not tied to ethnicity. "Chinese" is tied to ethnicity.

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#58

Even with a more open system for legally accepting immigrants, Japan has an extraordinarily closed system for culturally accepting immigrants. An immigrant to Japan is considered an outsider to much more of an extent than other countries.

Of course you have had your experience and I have had mine, but while we're trading opinions, I have found the Japanese, on the whole, to be among the warmest and most welcoming people I have ever met.

Yes, people in Tokyo tend to be a little curt, but no more so than people in other great metropolises like New York, Paris, or London.

I have also never experienced the permanent "outsider" stigma. I feel often the complaints boil down to people not liking that they are spoken to in English when being seated at a restaurant. Well, as someone who has quite a few friends working at restaurants, it honestly just an artifact of people trying to do their jobs efficiently, not some elaborate scheme to ostracize white people.

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#59

Anyone here know how much a typical (I know its hard to qualify a 'typical' programmer) gets paid in Japan compared to the US?

You can't make a apples to apples comparison because the legal systems are different (employees have more protections in Japan) but in a typical Japanese software development position (not a place like Google Japan) you can expect salaries at 60-70% of what you might see in the US.

I actually don't think it's the salaries that are the problem- I think it's harder to fit into the culture of a Japanese firm than the lower salaries.

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#60

Anyone here know how much a typical (I know its hard to qualify a 'typical' programmer) gets paid in Japan compared to the US?

People I know at big international companies make between $80k and $150k. People I know at Japanese companies and startups make between $40k and $80k. This is based on a very small sample size of people in Tokyo...
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