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Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

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Re: Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

#162
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Germans used metamphetamine during World War 2. They gave it nicknames Panzerschokolade ("tank chocolate"), Stuka-Tabletten ("Stuka tablets"), Herman-Göring-Pillen, or Flieger-Marzipan ("pilot's marzipan"). It was freely available under the brand name "Pervitin" until 1941. From then on, you needed a prescription in order to purchase it.

Not just Germany, or Japan, but US Bomber pilots used Amphetamines in WW2[0], and the infantry in Vietnam[1]. [0] https://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/10.1162/JINH_a_00212 (I could only find this abstract about US use.) [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/04/the-drugs...

Not just in WW2 and Vietnam, but much more recently than that. Search "go pills" in this unfortunately Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarnak_Farm_incident

Re: Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

#163

Club mate is the drink of choice in the start up community in Berlin. I've made the mistake of drinking that in the evening a couple of times and regretted that at 4am by being wide awake and unproductive the next day. If you are not familiar, mate tea which this is based on contains a form of caffeine that is particularly potent. It's like drinking multiple espresso shots. Don't drink this if you have blood pressure…

For the Club mate fans, a decent drink I threw together one day:

   4 parts club-mate
   2 parts lemonade
   1-2 parts white rum
   Glass filled with ice
Refreshing.

Re: Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

#164
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "a form of caffeine that is particularly potent" I've heard this over and over, but as far as I can tell, caffeine = caffeine = caffeine. I'm not a chemist, but I can't find any mention of any different forms -- it's C8H10N4O2. [1] Is there any scientific evidence that alertness is related to anything but the quantity of caffeine, regardless of whether it's delivered as black tea, mate tea, coffee, pills, etc.? Ass…

Not a chemist or even a frequent caffeine user either, but from my experience you can't reduce the effect of something you take to its active principle. For me, the same whisky has very noticeable differences in the effect and after-effect depending on how it's served / mixed.

I always assumed the line about water "opening up" whiskey was just about flavor and personal preference, but I just did a bit of looking around and apparently it might also get you drunker faster. Diluting vodka 1:1 with water apparently speeds up absorption quite a bit, so there's something physical happening, at leas tin the stomach.

Re: Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

#165
To everyone thinking about using caffine or other drugs to combat sleep: all of the latest sleep reseach would suggest that 'optimizing alertness during sleep loss' is a fool's errand if what you want is productivity. The real goal must be to ensure you get enough sleep, not that you medicate yourself with caffine to stop your body from getting sleep signals.

Think about it this way: If prolonged sleep were not absolutely essential to your survival and health, sleep would be the biggest mistake evolution has ever made. an animal spending 1/3 of its life unaware of it's surroundings is an incredibly steep evolutionary price to pay. It should be obvious that if we evolved to do that, there would be gigantic benefits to it, considering htat there is not a single known animal with a nervous system that does not sleep (including insects!). If caffine was actually helpful at reducing your need to sleep, an animal would have evolved by now to endogenously produce caffine.

There is a substantial body of sleep literature now showing huge benefits to physical / mental performance, willpower and creativity from sleep. Don't fight it, use it.

_____________________________________________

Edit:

One statistic thats particularily compelling to me: Every year during daylight savings when everyone loses an hour of sleep, the rate of heart attacks rises by 25%. On the day of the year where everyone gains an hour of sleep, heart attacks fall by 21%. Thats the effect of gaining / losing a single hour of sleep.

Re: Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

#166
post #45

How about, you know, sleeping? Working in a startup isn't being parachuted behind the enemy lines where your life depends on staying alert. Go home, you'll work better tomorrow.

I have mild ADD and tons of issues with migraines. Caffeine helps on both fronts. Do what's best for you, personally, and not what some internet stranger thinks is the correct way to function.

I know nothing about your medical issues, but to bring up a counter-point, it's possible that your 'mild ADD' and migraines are the symptoms of insufficient sleep quantity of quality. Medicating with caffeine could be counterproductive if that's the case.

Re: Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "a form of caffeine that is particularly potent" I've heard this over and over, but as far as I can tell, caffeine = caffeine = caffeine. I'm not a chemist, but I can't find any mention of any different forms -- it's C8H10N4O2. [1] Is there any scientific evidence that alertness is related to anything but the quantity of caffeine, regardless of whether it's delivered as black tea, mate tea, coffee, pills, etc.? Ass…

Yerba mate contains other stimulants as well, like red bull does. So yes caffeine = caffeine, but caffeineted drink!= caffeineted drink.

Red Bull does not contain any other stimulants.

Re: Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

#168
post #34
post #23

Caffeine is also linked to panic attacks, anxiety and sleep loss (and loss of quality of sleep), I would recommend staying off caffeine all together, having tried both, I by far more like working in the calmness of not having caffeine circulating in my body. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine-induced_anxiety_disor...

Wow, this is actually a thing! I thought it was just me. As someone who used to drink a LOT of cola-cola during their teens, caffeine really fucked me up good. I only noticed I was dependant (addicted) on caffeine after a friend pointed out I only felt good again on certain days after coming back from a client where there was no cola available. I took a little bottle with me to the client and felt "normal" that day.…

Could you elaborate about the headaches in the weekend? I also noticed I can not do much during the day without coffee but I never linked my headaches to caffeine.

Re: Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

#169

To everyone thinking about using caffine or other drugs to combat sleep: all of the latest sleep reseach would suggest that 'optimizing alertness during sleep loss' is a fool's errand if what you want is productivity. The real goal must be to ensure you get enough sleep, not that you medicate yourself with caffine to stop your body from getting sleep signals. Think about it this way: If prolonged sleep were not absol…

How much of sleeping is explained by metabolism reduction/calorie conservation?

Re: Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

#170

To everyone thinking about using caffine or other drugs to combat sleep: all of the latest sleep reseach would suggest that 'optimizing alertness during sleep loss' is a fool's errand if what you want is productivity. The real goal must be to ensure you get enough sleep, not that you medicate yourself with caffine to stop your body from getting sleep signals. Think about it this way: If prolonged sleep were not absol…

Totally agree. Trying to shortcut sleep is to misunderstand what happens in your brain while you are asleep. Your brain uses sleep to run processes akin to garbage collection, pathway reinforcement, and wide-range association building. It's a critical step in complex problem solving. If you're working on a problem during the day, then have a good night's sleep, you will typically find it easier to think about the problem or come up with a solution the following day.
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