Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

onlinelibrary.wiley.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 229 posts

Re: Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

#51

Post by solarkraft »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #19

Club mate is the drink of choice in the start up community in Berlin. I've made the mistake of drinking that in the evening a couple of times and regretted that at 4am by being wide awake and unproductive the next day. If you are not familiar, mate tea which this is based on contains a form of caffeine that is particularly potent. It's like drinking multiple espresso shots. Don't drink this if you have blood pressure…

I drink club mate in late evenings every now and then and I can't notice a strong effect.

Re: Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

#52

Post by usrusr »

hawkice wrote: post #7
euroclydon wrote: post #5

Surely there’s a better drug than coffee for staying awake for a long time.

More effective, maybe. But caffeine is so widely used and understood that it is by far the safest and least risky. That's super valuable.

"Could we get simular results without the nasty stuff if we just get the whole base on decaf during regular operations" seems to be a plausible motivation.

Re: Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

#53

Post by ranko »

icebraining wrote: post #41
ranko wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't help with the caffeine content, but I agree that there's a vast difference between good and bad tea. I particularly detest places that use a teabag and add milk before removing the bag. As George Orwell put it, "the best manner of making it is the subject of violent disputes" http://www.booksatoz.com/witsend/tea/orwell.htm

What's the issue with adding the milk before removing the bag?

The tea keeps brewing, but this time in the milky water. Tea brewed in milk is noticeably different to that brewed only in water. This can be done deliberately (eg, when making Masala Chai), but it's not normal (nor, in my book, acceptable) for tea to which milk is added later.

Re: Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

#54

Post by krylon »

euroclydon wrote: post #5

Surely there’s a better drug than coffee for staying awake for a long time.

I once spent a boring Sunday afternoon researching the alternatives on Wikipedia.

As far as I could find out, they are illegal (Amphetamine), prescription-only (Modafinil) and/or very bad for your health (Methamphetamine). Amphetamine and Methamphetamine are also rather addictive and apparently quitting once you formed a habit is no fun. Ephedrine might be an alternative, but in Germany, it's prescription-only, and I did not care enough to research the possible health issues it might cause. I vaguely remember there were a few substances that sounded promising, but they were fairly new, and I could not find out anything about their possible health effects, addictive-ness, etc...

So it's either caffeine or plenty of sleep, at least for me.

Re: Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

#55

Post by anoncoward111 »

Honestly guys, my opinion in this day and age is that pretty much any substance you put into your body (including water and air) can be toxic.

Some are more vital than others. We have a pretty clear need for lots of air, and a fair amount of water.

But it isn't as reasonable to think that our evolution intended or makes accomodations for caffeine intake.

Ingest at your own risk, whatever the dose. My wallet and my brain tell me to just go without it in my life.

Re: Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

#56

Post by Broken_Hippo »

nottorp wrote: post #45

How about, you know, sleeping? Working in a startup isn't being parachuted behind the enemy lines where your life depends on staying alert. Go home, you'll work better tomorrow.

"Go home, you'll work better tomorrow"

If only more people had this choice.

Re: Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

#57

Post by black6 »

nottorp wrote: post #45

How about, you know, sleeping? Working in a startup isn't being parachuted behind the enemy lines where your life depends on staying alert. Go home, you'll work better tomorrow.

When I was Infantry I used a cocktail of caffeine and nicotine (usually nasal snuff, sometimes supplemented with dipping tobacco) to stay awake on extended missions. Since nicotine is a vasoconstrictor it inhibited night vision to some degree, but that was better than nodding off.

Now that I'm a professional engineer and no longer in indentured servitude I stick to an 8 hour work day, get 7-8 hours of sleep a night, and have the rest of the day to spend with the family. There's no reason in this day and age to work yourself to the point of chemical dependence if your life isn't on the line.

Re: Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

#58

Post by crazygringo »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #19

Club mate is the drink of choice in the start up community in Berlin. I've made the mistake of drinking that in the evening a couple of times and regretted that at 4am by being wide awake and unproductive the next day. If you are not familiar, mate tea which this is based on contains a form of caffeine that is particularly potent. It's like drinking multiple espresso shots. Don't drink this if you have blood pressure…

> "a form of caffeine that is particularly potent"

I've heard this over and over, but as far as I can tell, caffeine = caffeine = caffeine. I'm not a chemist, but I can't find any mention of any different forms -- it's C8H10N4O2. [1]

Is there any scientific evidence that alertness is related to anything but the quantity of caffeine, regardless of whether it's delivered as black tea, mate tea, coffee, pills, etc.? Assuming that the caffeine makes it into the bloodstream at the same rate?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine

Re: Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

#59

Post by nottorp »

awinder wrote: post #46
nottorp wrote: post #45

How about, you know, sleeping? Working in a startup isn't being parachuted behind the enemy lines where your life depends on staying alert. Go home, you'll work better tomorrow.

Caffeine got me through maaany sleepless nights with my daughter for the first year or so. Sometimes in life you lose the luxury of choice in sleep ;-).

Been there done that, kid grew up and i started sleeping again. But that's different from not sleeping because you work 16 hour days.

Re: Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

#60

Post by nervousvarun »

ekianjo wrote: post #42
_ak wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Germans used metamphetamine during World War 2. They gave it nicknames Panzerschokolade ("tank chocolate"), Stuka-Tabletten ("Stuka tablets"), Herman-Göring-Pillen, or Flieger-Marzipan ("pilot's marzipan"). It was freely available under the brand name "Pervitin" until 1941. From then on, you needed a prescription in order to purchase it.

The Japanese also had similar drugs in free circulation during ww2 if I remember correctly.

Not only that, the Japanese actually invented (synthesized) Meth in 1919. source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methamphetamine

It's still one of the most popular (if not the most popular) illegal drugs in Japan. source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_methamphetamin...

Post reply on HN