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Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

onlinelibrary.wiley.com

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Re: Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

#21

Post by firmgently »

4ad wrote: post #8

I drink a lot of tea. About 1 liter a day as a baseline, but if I do some ultrahike or something I can easily drink 3 liters a day. Sometimes for some reason it's really hard to drink my tea (e.g. I'm in a hotel that doesn't have drinkable tea), so I tried to substitute with other caffeine products. Unfortunately I couldn't find out any reliable data on the caffeine content of the tea that I drink. All the informatio…

I don't know how to calculate amounts of caffeine but regarding the differing psychoactive effects, Googling 'tea stimulants' will get you lots of info... seems the main other stimulants in tea besides caffeine are theobromine (as found in cacao/chocolate) and theophylline.

Re: Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

#22

Post by Zezima »

_ak wrote: post #20
euroclydon wrote: post #5

Surely there’s a better drug than coffee for staying awake for a long time.

The Germans used metamphetamine during World War 2. They gave it nicknames Panzerschokolade ("tank chocolate"), Stuka-Tabletten ("Stuka tablets"), Herman-Göring-Pillen, or Flieger-Marzipan ("pilot's marzipan"). It was freely available under the brand name "Pervitin" until 1941. From then on, you needed a prescription in order to purchase it.

Did you read Blitzed by Norman Ohler?

Re: Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

#23

Post by _lbaq »

Caffeine is also linked to panic attacks, anxiety and sleep loss (and loss of quality of sleep), I would recommend staying off caffeine all together, having tried both, I by far more like working in the calmness of not having caffeine circulating in my body.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine-induced_anxiety_disor...

Re: Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

#24

Post by andai »

gadders wrote: post #18
L_226 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modafinil - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modafinil

I took some of that once for an overnight deployment at work. It's good stuff. No headaches like I would have got if I'd been drinking coffee all night.

I tried Modafinil for a few weeks with some friends. The alertness is quite incredible, although for me made me unable to fall asleep until dawn (even on half the lowest dose).

The others have no trouble sleeping even with large doses, but experienced some bad headaches, or personality changes ("I just want to work all day now" -- this may not be bad depending on context).

I quit the trial when I developed large purple circles on my skin. Turns out skin problems, including some medically serious ones, are a relatively common side effect.

Proceed with caution!

Re: Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

#25

Post by ranko »

4ad wrote: post #8

I drink a lot of tea. About 1 liter a day as a baseline, but if I do some ultrahike or something I can easily drink 3 liters a day. Sometimes for some reason it's really hard to drink my tea (e.g. I'm in a hotel that doesn't have drinkable tea), so I tried to substitute with other caffeine products. Unfortunately I couldn't find out any reliable data on the caffeine content of the tea that I drink. All the informatio…

Can't help with the caffeine content, but I agree that there's a vast difference between good and bad tea. I particularly detest places that use a teabag and add milk before removing the bag.

As George Orwell put it, "the best manner of making it is the subject of violent disputes" http://www.booksatoz.com/witsend/tea/orwell.htm

Re: Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

#26

Post by andai »

4ad wrote: post #8

I drink a lot of tea. About 1 liter a day as a baseline, but if I do some ultrahike or something I can easily drink 3 liters a day. Sometimes for some reason it's really hard to drink my tea (e.g. I'm in a hotel that doesn't have drinkable tea), so I tried to substitute with other caffeine products. Unfortunately I couldn't find out any reliable data on the caffeine content of the tea that I drink. All the informatio…

That is interesting about the thermometer! I noticed my tea always tastes like ass if I use boiling water, so now I add a bit of cold water after it boils. What is the optimum temperature?

Re: Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

#27

Post by dosy »

albertgoeswoof wrote: post #13
Bakary wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The summary on the first page?

I think he/she is asking for a more actionable summary. E.g. consume 10mg of caffeine every 4 hours from 6am till 2pm etc.

After 10 minute read here's what I get out of it:

The study is a meta study that doesn't actually test individuals but uses data from other studies that do test individuals to assess average group performance under sleep deprivation (either total or chronic restriction) using an algorithm that tries to use the other studies as inputs and predict their results to draw out patterns by finding dosing strategies that optimize performance.

The advice seems to be: reduce total caffeine amount because otherwise recovery to normal is worse, take more caffeine on days with less sleep, and less on days with more sleep, delay the dose to closer to sleep period ( otherwise your performance tanks as your approach sleep period, i.e., you only stay high for so long ), and if you can don't dose on the first and last days of your sleep restriction period, just go "natural".

Re: Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

#28

Post by bryanlarsen »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #19

Club mate is the drink of choice in the start up community in Berlin. I've made the mistake of drinking that in the evening a couple of times and regretted that at 4am by being wide awake and unproductive the next day. If you are not familiar, mate tea which this is based on contains a form of caffeine that is particularly potent. It's like drinking multiple espresso shots. Don't drink this if you have blood pressure…

"restrict myself to mornings only"

Do yourself a favour and take the next step. Stop ingesting daily and reserve coffee for sleep emergencies and medicinal purposes. Even a single daily cup of coffee is enough to build a tolerance to it.

Besides affecting alertness, caffeine is also a very effective way of increasing the potency of many drugs. For me, Advil by itself has little effect, but in combination with caffeine it works great.

Re: Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

#29

Post by Legogris »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #19

Club mate is the drink of choice in the start up community in Berlin. I've made the mistake of drinking that in the evening a couple of times and regretted that at 4am by being wide awake and unproductive the next day. If you are not familiar, mate tea which this is based on contains a form of caffeine that is particularly potent. It's like drinking multiple espresso shots. Don't drink this if you have blood pressure…

Apart from caffeine, yerba mate also contains the stimulants theobromine and theophylline, which makes the effects qualitatively different from only ingesting caffeine. I found yerba mate works very well as a pre-workout drink.

I think yerba mate makes me more stimulated but less "wired" than coffee. I have mainly been making tea with the actual mate leafs and not so much the sugary club mate.

Re: Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

#30

Post by Legogris »

4ad wrote: post #8

I drink a lot of tea. About 1 liter a day as a baseline, but if I do some ultrahike or something I can easily drink 3 liters a day. Sometimes for some reason it's really hard to drink my tea (e.g. I'm in a hotel that doesn't have drinkable tea), so I tried to substitute with other caffeine products. Unfortunately I couldn't find out any reliable data on the caffeine content of the tea that I drink. All the informatio…

High- and medium grade green tea (especially the Japanese varieties) have significant amounts of L-theanine, which has its own effects and synergies with caffeine. For me, the same amount of caffeine will have me anxious and give me tunnel-vision if I get it from coffee while more euphoric and peppy if from green tea.
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