Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#291

Post by lolc » Wed, Jun 06, 2018, 5:08 PM UTC

ovao wrote: post #276

lolc wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe there's an element to this that I'm simply missing, From a consumer standpoint you're buying a black box controlled by a company that frequently behaves in a overtly hostile manner towards the "owners". Imagine Apple not letting you use the accelerometer or GPS sensors in your phone. Instead they'd just collect telemetry from it. Now imagine you claim a "spontaneous shattering of the screen". To counter this,…

Those aren’t the issues the commenter to which I responded claims to be concerned with. You’re making an argument based on separate concerns, which is valid, but those aren’t the things that we were discussing.

Sorry if I got lost in the woods.

Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#292

Post by emodendroket » Wed, Jun 06, 2018, 6:47 PM UTC

aerovistae wrote: post #287

emodendroket wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I'm not already convinced Tesla is being unfairly attacked, I'm not amenable to changing my position? I find that line hard to understand.

True, perhaps you are amenable to it. But 95% of people encountered online already have their minds made up one way or the other pretty firmly, and I don't care to take the chance you're a unicorn. Which begs the question, why do I comment in these discussions at all? I do not know.

You seem to be making quite a habit of it.

Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#293

Post by aerovistae » Thu, Jun 07, 2018, 12:14 PM UTC

emodendroket wrote: post #292

aerovistae wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, perhaps you are amenable to it. But 95% of people encountered online already have their minds made up one way or the other pretty firmly, and I don't care to take the chance you're a unicorn. Which begs the question, why do I comment in these discussions at all? I do not know.

You seem to be making quite a habit of it.

Don’t think I don’t know it. Sigh.

Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#294

Post by rmc » Thu, Jun 07, 2018, 1:12 PM UTC

bdamm wrote: post #277

tzs wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it is a US company that does business in Europe, but is not established in the Union, you are correct. If the company is established in the Union, then GDPR applies to all personal data processing it does. See Article 3(1): "This Regulation applies to the processing of personal data in the context of the activities of an establishment of a controller or a processor in the Union, regardless of whether the processin…

In the United States, "The Union" is sometimes a referral to the union of the states, e.g. the United States. I assume you're talking about the European Union, but since I'm a U.S. Person, I'm not really sure.

yes European Union

Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#295

Post by rmc » Thu, Jun 07, 2018, 1:13 PM UTC

delinka wrote: post #240

CiaranMcNulty wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it has a US subsidiary (which is fairly likely for tax etc) then that entity has to give you your data.

And who has jurisdiction to enforce that? Can a US citizen (who has never been in the EU) sue in an EU court to compel release of the US citizen's data from the US division/unit/hq/whatever? Does that court have authority to compel the release by the US division? Can the EU court compel a US court to find similarly? Point: how is the GDPR ever going to be enforced between US citizens and US companies-with-an-EU-prese…

You don't need to sue in court, you can make a complaint to a covering Data Protection Agency. i.e. where the corporation's office is. They are supposed to take care of it, and they will have the power to force the local company to do things (or fine them).

Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#296

Post by rmc » Thu, Jun 07, 2018, 1:17 PM UTC

nemoniac wrote: post #165

craftyguy wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if you are in the EU. Many Tesla drivers aren't.

The GDPR also holds for European Tesla drivers outside the EU.

No, GDPR only applies if (i) you're in the EU or (ii) the org with the personal data is in the EU.

(i) might be enforible against a US corp if they have something in the EU to do business

Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#297

Post by rmc » Thu, Jun 07, 2018, 1:20 PM UTC

adrianN wrote: post #7

pgeorgi wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean GDPR?

No, I mean all data, not just PII. If a Nest measures the temperature in my house I want to own those data points.

The temperature of your house at certain times can be used to figure out when you were at home, what rooms you were in, when you went to bed, if you're just at home alone, or someone else was at home when you were there too.

Sounds like PII!

Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#298

Post by SuoDuanDao » Sat, Jun 09, 2018, 6:41 PM UTC

telchar wrote: post #271

SuoDuanDao wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as an amateur Musk-mythologist, I would guess something we can't see is going on behind the scenes. Since around the time he started dating Grimes, Elon's general tone has gotten more combative. Whether he's deliberately courting bad press or it's a byproduct of something else isn't clear to me, but I would hazard a guess that it's part of something larger. Part of why I find the Elon Musk story so fascinating is bec…

This is an interesting take. Would you care to speculate about what may be going on under the surface?

I have thee theories, any of which could be true independently of each other. From a long-term perspective it seems obvious to me that Musk is aligned with some kind of progress-friendly coalition, and that this is part of a greater pattern of sabre - rattling between Elon's faction and a more conservative rival which many of the legacy media outlets belong to. On a smaller scale, it could be that the labour and automation issues are pretty well sorted and he's baiting shorts. Finally, it could be that since he's entered a new romantic relationship recently, he's simply undergoing a personality change and more easily combative.