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Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

consumeraffairs.com

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Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#201

Post by FireBeyond »

gm-conspiracy wrote: post #125
adrianN wrote: post #2

Can we make a law that all data collected by devices that I bought belongs to me? Yes, that includes everything the websites I visit send back to the mothership.

So, if you have a DSLR camera on a tripod set to a timer, and you do not actually take the picture, you have no claim to copyright of that image, even though the device you owned created it?

Wasn't this a copyright claim against Wikipedia, where an ape picked up a camera and took a selfie, and Wikipedia et al decided that meant the camera owner had no copyright claim over the image?

Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#202

Post by giancarlostoro »

cataphract wrote: post #200
smnrchrds wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Having the choice to not buy a Tesla. If Tesla's business model proves successful, all other car makers will copy it, and then it doesn't matter which brand you buy. Look at the TV market. You technically have the choice not to buy a "Smart TV," which sells your info to god-knows how many third-parties and spies on you 24/7. But good luck finding one. Sony, Samsung, LG? They all have the same spyware features. Your…

Can't you just not connect them to the Internet?

This is what I did.

Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#203

Post by falcolas »

gonational wrote: post #144
LeifCarrotson wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be clear what you mean by voluntary. I agree that preventing a person to choose to sell something they own is a restriction on their freedom. But problems arise when the negotiation of that exchange is unilateral, relegated to EULAs and contracts which are incomprehensible, non-negotiable, and mandatory to purchase the product, and performed in a less-than-perfectly-efficient market. It would be one thing if I could…

The A in EULA stands for “agreement”. How can an entity “unilaterally” bind you to a EULA? (hint: they can’t) Just because many people don’t value their privacy, or are too lazy to try to understand contracts before they agree to them, doesn’t mean I want to give up my rights to protect those same idiots. Do you remember guy who caused the whole group to have to do pushups in gym class? That’s kind of the situation i…

So, have you read through and completely understood the 39 pages of TOS and Privacy Policy docs required to post on HN? Do you consider those who have not to also be "idiots"?

Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#204

Post by gm-conspiracy »

FireBeyond wrote: post #201
gm-conspiracy wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, if you have a DSLR camera on a tripod set to a timer, and you do not actually take the picture, you have no claim to copyright of that image, even though the device you owned created it?

Wasn't this a copyright claim against Wikipedia, where an ape picked up a camera and took a selfie, and Wikipedia et al decided that meant the camera owner had no copyright claim over the image?

yes.

Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#205

Post by [deleted] »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #140
ASalazarMX wrote: post #110

What's the deal with the recent flood of anti-Tesla news? Does someone want to buy Tesla stock, or is Tesla just no longer cool?

> What's the deal with the recent flood of anti-Tesla news? At the end of March Tesla had $2.6bn of cash on its balance sheet [1]. Against that they have (a) $1.8bn of current debt ( i.e. due within one year), $1.2bn of which is recourse (page 24) and (b) between investments and operations a cash burn of $1.1bn in Q1. Tesla needs to raise new capital. That is as obvious to investors as it is to bankers. So the latter…

[deleted]

Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#206

Post by belril »

kodablah wrote: post #150
ASalazarMX wrote: post #110

What's the deal with the recent flood of anti-Tesla news? Does someone want to buy Tesla stock, or is Tesla just no longer cool?

Yup, the media cycle. While usually starts from actual incidents, you can bet that they wouldn't repeatedly make the front page except by intention. I have a hard time knowing whether this, anti-FB, anti-Goog, anti-Twitter, anti-whatever is the result of a conspiracy or if it's just the simple fact that by building a furor the media can generate views. Surely the latter, but it's annoying and when it rains it pours f…

There's a third option that you're not considering: these companies receive significant scrutiny from the press because of their size and power, especially as it relates to our daily lives. That scrutiny leads to the disclosure of wrongdoing and controversy where it's found. In my experience with journalistic outlets, they're not writing stories out of a cynical desire for pageviews, or because of some massive conspiracy, they're writing because they believe there's an important story the public should be aware of.

In order for a media conspiracy to work, you would need to convince dozens if not hundreds of individual, competing journalists (who are not exactly known for their conformity) to go along with a scheme. I don't believe that should pass Occam's Razor for anyone.

Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#207

Post by stordoff »

cataphract wrote: post #200
smnrchrds wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Having the choice to not buy a Tesla. If Tesla's business model proves successful, all other car makers will copy it, and then it doesn't matter which brand you buy. Look at the TV market. You technically have the choice not to buy a "Smart TV," which sells your info to god-knows how many third-parties and spies on you 24/7. But good luck finding one. Sony, Samsung, LG? They all have the same spyware features. Your…

Can't you just not connect them to the Internet?

For now, yes, but if the business model is successful enough (particularly for something as expensive as a car), is there anything stopping a manufacturer bundling in their own Internet connection?

Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#208

Post by sxates »

pwagland wrote: post #39

So this is something that has always kind of bugged me about Tesla. If you have an accident, they are more than happy to drop the crash data "proving" that you were at fault, look at the recent stories about running into a road barrier and the back of a firetruck for recent examples of this. And, of course, they don't ask you first if they can release it. However, if you want the data, you can't have it… you have to…

This only seems to happen for accidents that turn into national news, speculating that Tesla was at fault (or with drivers actively accusing them of fault). Their response is (understandably I think) to defend themselves when they can show they weren't at fault. I'd assume that if you have an accident and don't make it a media story, they don't publish your driving errors.

Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#209

Post by gilrain »

xvf22 wrote: post #116
pwagland wrote: post #39

So this is something that has always kind of bugged me about Tesla. If you have an accident, they are more than happy to drop the crash data "proving" that you were at fault, look at the recent stories about running into a road barrier and the back of a firetruck for recent examples of this. And, of course, they don't ask you first if they can release it. However, if you want the data, you can't have it… you have to…

I guess the data is built into the price of a Tesla? Would be nice if there was an option to pay not to be so heavily tracked.

Or to be citizen of a government that gave a damn.

Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#210

Post by Nullabillity »

cataphract wrote: post #200
smnrchrds wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Having the choice to not buy a Tesla. If Tesla's business model proves successful, all other car makers will copy it, and then it doesn't matter which brand you buy. Look at the TV market. You technically have the choice not to buy a "Smart TV," which sells your info to god-knows how many third-parties and spies on you 24/7. But good luck finding one. Sony, Samsung, LG? They all have the same spyware features. Your…

Can't you just not connect them to the Internet?

The "Smart" software also tends to add a lot of latency, which may or may not be acceptable depending on your circumstances.
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