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Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

consumeraffairs.com

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Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#141

Post by danso »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #112
ASalazarMX wrote: post #110

What's the deal with the recent flood of anti-Tesla news? Does someone want to buy Tesla stock, or is Tesla just no longer cool?

This article [+] explains it pretty succinctly, with as little bias as possible (TL;DR Tesla is the most shorted stock in the US, while also endangering entrenched interests). [+] https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/5/29/1767826/-The-War-... EDIT: below content moved up to this comment from danso reply in order to be more concise as well as to keep signal to post ratio high: I do my best to provide non-biased sourc…

Note: I have friends and acquaintances who work at Reveal; I used to work at ProPublica, and the social circle of nonprofit journalism is pretty small.

That said, I'm not making an a priori argument that Reveal is right. My objection was to you claiming the DK post has "as little bias as possible", when it seems to be a vigorous defense of Tesla, by a Tesla owner. Again, nothing wrong with stated bias -- I'm objecting to your characterization.

For example, the author has time for rhetoric like this:

> Of course, Reveal has shown no interest whatsoever in fact checking. If you have anything bad to say about Tesla, by all means, give them a call. They'll write an article about whatever you tell them.

Yet this objective article you tout fails to note that Tesla -- about a month after Reveal's initial investigation that Tesla "left injuries off the books" -- belatedly added the injuries that Reveal called out:

https://www.revealnews.org/article/tesla-left-injuries-off-t...

> Tesla Inc. recently added more names to its list of injured employees after Reveal from The Center for Investigative Reporting raised questions about whether the company was counting all of its work injuries, records show.

> The electric car company added 13 injuries from 2017 that had been missing when Tesla certified its legally mandated injury report earlier this year.

Again, feel free to trash Reveal's overall aims and ulterior motives. But an objective critique of their investigation should probably note that Tesla moved to fix the errors that Tesla had previously denied.

Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#142

Post by gm-conspiracy »

freerobby wrote: post #74
gwbas1c wrote: post #48

Accelerator pedal immediately went from 0% to 100%? Really? Even I don't press my brake like that when parking.

> Even I don't press my brake like that when parking. You might if you thought it was the brake and the car was accelerating.

Nope. Unless they have really shitty logging intervals, which would also be a problem.

Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#143

Post by Analemma_ »

gm-conspiracy wrote: post #125
adrianN wrote: post #2

Can we make a law that all data collected by devices that I bought belongs to me? Yes, that includes everything the websites I visit send back to the mothership.

So, if you have a DSLR camera on a tripod set to a timer, and you do not actually take the picture, you have no claim to copyright of that image, even though the device you owned created it?

The court system is not, in fact, a dumb automaton that is bamboozled by questions like this.

Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#144

Post by gonational »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #72
kodablah wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is, if it belongs to me, can I voluntarily give it up even under the known condition I can't ask for it back? I mean, it belongs to me right? That's where these laws often run afoul. You can have more freedom with consequences, or less freedom with restrictions.

Be clear what you mean by voluntary. I agree that preventing a person to choose to sell something they own is a restriction on their freedom. But problems arise when the negotiation of that exchange is unilateral, relegated to EULAs and contracts which are incomprehensible, non-negotiable, and mandatory to purchase the product, and performed in a less-than-perfectly-efficient market. It would be one thing if I could…

The A in EULA stands for “agreement”.

How can an entity “unilaterally” bind you to a EULA? (hint: they can’t)

Just because many people don’t value their privacy, or are too lazy to try to understand contracts before they agree to them, doesn’t mean I want to give up my rights to protect those same idiots.

Do you remember guy who caused the whole group to have to do pushups in gym class? That’s kind of the situation intelligent people are in now, except it’s an entire class of idiots removing the rights of just a few who are smart enough to make their own decisions.

The worst part is that these same idiots, who were too dumb to understand that you shouldn’t sign up for a service that offers 100 pages of fine text in their license, are also deciding on the solution (e.g., GDPR) for the problems they put themselves in, which means they will undoubtedly fail to protect themselves, while also succeeding at screwing us over.

Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#145

Post by Sangermaine »

ASalazarMX wrote: post #110

What's the deal with the recent flood of anti-Tesla news? Does someone want to buy Tesla stock, or is Tesla just no longer cool?

There’s no need to posit conspiracy nonsense. Tesla has received glowing uncritical coverage for a long time, this is just the correction.

It appears from the comments that the Cult of Elon can’t handle this. Elon is perfect, anything negative about him or his interests are conspiracies to destroy him.

Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#146

Post by danso »

Navarr wrote: post #90
bjpbakker wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What use would this type of data be to the average consumer? We can also reverse this question: why would Tesla hide this type of data from their customers so intensely? One reason that comes to mind on both questions, is that customer's (or someone on their behalf) are able to review if the crash is due to software malfunction. > isn't this otherwise very similar to being in a plane crash and demanding the black b…

> why would Tesla hide this type of data from their customers so intensely? To give them the benefit of the doubt: * Do you consider this diagnostic data to be highly personal, worth protecting heavily? (Does it include GPS?) * Do you trust your engineers to properly verify the identity of a person before granting this potentially highly personal data? * Does your legal department trust your engineers that much? * Do…

But companies like Facebook and Google also have policies that call for only releasing data to government via court order. And both companies allow users to do bulk downloads of their own data.

Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#147

Post by vinceguidry »

ovao wrote: post #133
vinceguidry wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't matter. They have an established history and have been making cars for almost a hundred years. I drive a Mazda now. If it's looking like drive-by-wire technology is too dangerous, I'll just keep driving that and hope my cruise control doesn't decide to cause an accident.

I don't quite follow the logic that it doesn't matter. If the reason for someone not to buy a Tesla is because they do (A), why is the alternative to buy from another manufacturer that also does (A)?

I don't need a reason to not buy Tesla, I need a reason to buy Tesla. Belief in Musk's vision and the awesomeness of the car was that reason. Without both of those things being true, there's no reason to buy something that new and untested. It's like asking me to buy a Kickstarter car.

Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#148

Post by delbel »

Analemma_ wrote: post #143
gm-conspiracy wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, if you have a DSLR camera on a tripod set to a timer, and you do not actually take the picture, you have no claim to copyright of that image, even though the device you owned created it?

The court system is not, in fact, a dumb automaton that is bamboozled by questions like this.

... Yet. I read this in a cynical 90's AT&T commercial "You Will..."

Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#149

Post by toomuchtodo »

danso wrote: post #141
toomuchtodo wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This article [+] explains it pretty succinctly, with as little bias as possible (TL;DR Tesla is the most shorted stock in the US, while also endangering entrenched interests). [+] https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/5/29/1767826/-The-War-... EDIT: below content moved up to this comment from danso reply in order to be more concise as well as to keep signal to post ratio high: I do my best to provide non-biased sourc…

Note: I have friends and acquaintances who work at Reveal; I used to work at ProPublica, and the social circle of nonprofit journalism is pretty small. That said, I'm not making an a priori argument that Reveal is right. My objection was to you claiming the DK post has "as little bias as possible", when it seems to be a vigorous defense of Tesla, by a Tesla owner. Again, nothing wrong with stated bias -- I'm objectin…

I've just left a voicemail with Cal/OSHA and am waiting to hear back. If my statement you replied to turns out to be incorrect, I will post a retraction if my edit window times out.

If it's true that Tesla is hiding workplace industries, this is of course something that I will want to find a way to get answers to at the annual meeting. That is unacceptable regardless of organization.

Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#150

Post by kodablah »

ASalazarMX wrote: post #110

What's the deal with the recent flood of anti-Tesla news? Does someone want to buy Tesla stock, or is Tesla just no longer cool?

Yup, the media cycle. While usually starts from actual incidents, you can bet that they wouldn't repeatedly make the front page except by intention. I have a hard time knowing whether this, anti-FB, anti-Goog, anti-Twitter, anti-whatever is the result of a conspiracy or if it's just the simple fact that by building a furor the media can generate views. Surely the latter, but it's annoying and when it rains it pours for these companies. Props to be able to see the pattern though it doesn't necessarily discredit the content, just its prioritization.
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