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Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

consumeraffairs.com

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Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#81

Post by danso »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #38
vinceguidry wrote: post #32

Oh boy, I was so excited to get a Tesla when the time finally came, but if they're still pulling this crap when that happens, guess I'm getting a Benz instead.

Try to get the data out of your GM or Ford airbag flash storage device (any vehicle with a data logger paired to the airbag subsystem, which is most cars on the road) and see how similar the process is. More “journalistic” nonsense. I agree they have a lot of legitimate issues (cash flow, scaling, retention, working conditions, process maturity, overpromising) to deal with, but can’t journalists focus on those instea…

Can you point to an instance where GM/Ford published a user's data in a press release to defend itself?

Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#82

Post by ams6110 »

spaceisballer wrote: post #19

Serious question, Can you get data from any other car manufacturer? I know ICE cars collect information but do you have access to it?

You can get a connector and software and access pretty much anything on a laptop plugged in to the diagnostic port. Of course that software isn't free, and it's generally sold to repair shops so don't know how easy it would be for a consumer to buy.

Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#84

Post by EpicEng »

pseudometa wrote: post #25

Isn't this true of any car company? BMW, Mercedes, and Lexus aren't going to hand over vehicle data. You can't just ask Google for your Android Auto data.

Those companies aren't in the news blaming drivers for crashes which occur while using their "autopilot" tech. So you may be right, but context matters. Maybe someday it will be them in the hot seat, but today, it's Tesla.

Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#85

Post by kbenson »

dsr_ wrote: post #50
jrs95 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't authors selling the rights to their work basically how the entire book industry works?

That's the copying right, not the moral right. The moral right is the right to be identified as the creator and the right to maintain the integrity of the work in subsequent copying.

So, they can't sell that, as the GP is proposing, or they generally just don't under the current economic system? Because I'm pretty sure Dean Koontz does a variation of this, where he outlines the story but someone else actually writes the book, and it's published under his name.

Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#86

Post by jimmaswell »

adrianN wrote: post #2

Can we make a law that all data collected by devices that I bought belongs to me? Yes, that includes everything the websites I visit send back to the mothership.

There's no real justification for anyone having that right. The device manufacturer/website owner/etc does the work of creating the data, yet you think it's yours?

Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#87

Post by lucb1e »

adrianN wrote: post #7
pgeorgi wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean GDPR?

No, I mean all data, not just PII. If a Nest measures the temperature in my house I want to own those data points.

It's often data about you, in which case it's linked to you in which case it falls under GDPR. This crash data is definitely about you, as general driving data would be. Your home's temperature won't be, so GDPR indeed won't apply there, but GDPR is a good first step. (I mean, EU already had it since 1995, but in USA it would be a good first step.)

I agree that your proposal would be a good extension. Or at least that it should be the default, and you'd need to sign for being okay with not owning the data. Or that those devices contain warning stickers.

Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#88

Post by jimmaswell »

danso wrote: post #81
toomuchtodo wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try to get the data out of your GM or Ford airbag flash storage device (any vehicle with a data logger paired to the airbag subsystem, which is most cars on the road) and see how similar the process is. More “journalistic” nonsense. I agree they have a lot of legitimate issues (cash flow, scaling, retention, working conditions, process maturity, overpromising) to deal with, but can’t journalists focus on those instea…

Can you point to an instance where GM/Ford published a user's data in a press release to defend itself?

Are you saying that it's a bad thing for Tesla to defend itself with its collected data?

Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#89

Post by danso »

yumraj wrote: post #54
pwagland wrote: post #39

So this is something that has always kind of bugged me about Tesla. If you have an accident, they are more than happy to drop the crash data "proving" that you were at fault, look at the recent stories about running into a road barrier and the back of a firetruck for recent examples of this. And, of course, they don't ask you first if they can release it. However, if you want the data, you can't have it… you have to…

Can a Tesla owner comment it they signed some sort of T&C related to this data? I wonder can Tesla be sued for revealing this data without owners' consent.

Tesla's privacy policy is worded to allow these kinds of disclosures:

https://www.tesla.com/about/legal

> Tesla may transfer and disclose information, including information that may or may not personally identify you, to third parties to comply with a legal obligation (including, but not limited to, subpoenas);...to verify or enforce our policies and procedures;...to prevent or stop activity we may consider to be, or to pose a risk of being, illegal, unethical or legally actionable; or to protect the rights, property, safety, or security of our products and services, Tesla, third parties, visitors, or the public, as determined by us in our sole discretion.

Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#90

Post by Navarr »

bjpbakker wrote: post #29
berdon wrote: post #13

What use would this type of data be to the average consumer? Outside of the obvious question of ownership and argument of who owns the data - isn't this otherwise very similar to being in a plane crash and demanding the black box data? Surely the data, itself, isn't very helpful compared to the analysis of the data? Note: My question is in no way trying to argue against the consumer owning the data. I'm just wonderin…

> What use would this type of data be to the average consumer? We can also reverse this question: why would Tesla hide this type of data from their customers so intensely? One reason that comes to mind on both questions, is that customer's (or someone on their behalf) are able to review if the crash is due to software malfunction. > isn't this otherwise very similar to being in a plane crash and demanding the black b…

> why would Tesla hide this type of data from their customers so intensely?

To give them the benefit of the doubt:

* Do you consider this diagnostic data to be highly personal, worth protecting heavily? (Does it include GPS?)

* Do you trust your engineers to properly verify the identity of a person before granting this potentially highly personal data?

* Does your legal department trust your engineers that much?

* Do you have the resources/desire to lay out a foundational system of getting that identity verification and granting that data?

If you answered "No" to any of those questions, you might very well want to say "We will do it if it is required of us by a court order."

While it is unideal, it's not nonsensical.

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