The lesson that one should never take candy from strangers does not seem like an acceptable place to practice human experimentation, especially on children.
The Marshmallow Test: What Does It Really Measure?
161–170 of 282 posts
Re: The Marshmallow Test: What Does It Really Measure?
#162About this: " This new paper found that among kids whose mothers had a college degree, those who waited for a second marshmallow did no better in the long run—in terms of standardized test scores and mothers’ reports of their children’s behavior—than those who dug right in. " Since "standardized test scores" tends to measure IQ, it seems this can be re-phrased as "those who did well on the will-power test did not nec…
They also seem to be strongly suggesting that those who perform well at this test of will power are no more likely to be successful than those who don't when controlled for economic background.
In other words, people who have more resources available don't optimize for immediate reward as much.
Re: The Marshmallow Test: What Does It Really Measure?
#163Earlier quoted context omitted.
1) Availability to "food" and availability to __healthy food__ are two different things. 2) Poverty creates perma-stress. It effects the body. It effects the mind. It effects decision making. Poverty is not sinply about income. It's much more complicated than that.
Seriously, who in western countries does not have availability to "healthy food"? Everybody has basic grocery stores with cheap simple stuff just as available to them as convenience junk shops. It's education about how food affects you that makes all the difference. People literally don't know what they're putting in themselves. There's a lot of food purchasing decisions based on stressors related to your very reason…
Not that I trust the CDC per se but if you query yourself you'll see there are plenty of other sources.
https://www.cdc.gov/features/FoodDeserts/index.html
Regardless, what you're naively discounting is the effects of poverty on the mind (and the body). Imagine, if you can, a state of permanent stress, fear, worry, etc. The human mind is __not__ wired to make optimal decisions under such circumstances.
Now let's just say it's time to eat...You're running from your 2nd job to your 3rd...how do you think that decision is going to go?
Poverty is not a lack of wealth. That's a side effect. Poverty is the result of mental, emotional and spiritual starvation; in the face of a world of plenty for everyone else but you and yours.
Re: The Marshmallow Test: What Does It Really Measure?
#164Earlier quoted context omitted.
1) Availability to "food" and availability to __healthy food__ are two different things. 2) Poverty creates perma-stress. It effects the body. It effects the mind. It effects decision making. Poverty is not sinply about income. It's much more complicated than that.
I don't know why you are being downvoted, since this is a perfectly valid topic that has been researched: http://www.businessinsider.com/poverty-effect-on-intelligenc... . There is also an effect about being time poor and having little to no time to cook. And coming from an also poor and time poor family, and never having learned how to cook. Etc. Poverty fucks you in many ways, and is indeed a complicated beast.
Why does truth get down voted by naive know-it-alls on HN? Gee. I don't know ;)
Re: The Marshmallow Test: What Does It Really Measure?
#165Thinking that the only reason poor kids would prefer to eat the first marshmallow due to having a low willpower is incredibly shallow: what if the kid had an experience in life that tells him that no matter how credible the source is, the second marshmallow has a huge probability of never coming; or for what's it worth - they'll take away both of them since the child tried to be "smart”? Edit: came here to attack the…
You have an over-simplistic view of the original research. It wasn't only about the "willpower", but also coping mechanisms than we employ to control our urges. And it proven that some children are way better in this than others. For instance some kids would turn their back to the cookie, or would come up with some other distraction, so that they don't think about eating it. Having this type of resourcefulness to qui…
You’re arguing definitions. Resourcefullness is encompassed by willpower in the context of this article.
Yet the point I am trying to make is that poor kids would have a tendency to make their decisions based on their context which isn’t, sadly - optimal in most cases.
The connection between “this kid doesn’t have to think about rudimentary issues because he’s better off” becomes closer to “rich people can risk more because their risk is hedged by their well-being”.
Re: The Marshmallow Test: What Does It Really Measure?
#166Earlier quoted context omitted.
1) Availability to "food" and availability to __healthy food__ are two different things. 2) Poverty creates perma-stress. It effects the body. It effects the mind. It effects decision making. Poverty is not sinply about income. It's much more complicated than that.
I don't know why you are being downvoted, since this is a perfectly valid topic that has been researched: http://www.businessinsider.com/poverty-effect-on-intelligenc... . There is also an effect about being time poor and having little to no time to cook. And coming from an also poor and time poor family, and never having learned how to cook. Etc. Poverty fucks you in many ways, and is indeed a complicated beast.
Time. Yes that's important as well. It's not just cooking.
Time is lost waiting for the bus, because you can't afford a car. You wait in line at the store because it can't afford another cashier and better technology. Etc.
People think poverty is their well to do life but with less money. Oh God, that's so ignorant.
BTW, the book Evicted is an eye and heart opener. Highly recommended.
Re: The Marshmallow Test: What Does It Really Measure?
#167Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think that's why socialist countries seem to take the attitude that we, as politicians, know what's good for you and you don't. So we will regulate you and put in laws to protect you while restricting your choices and freedom. This may benefit the poor and irritate the rich.
Unfortunately socialist countries being inevitably corrupt, the programs end up benefiting specific producers regardless of food quality.
Stepping back, any country run by humans will inevitably be corrupt. So we are really talking about degrees of corruption.
For context, I was referring to socialist countries under the European definition which is a mix of socialism and capitalism. This might include France, Denmark, Sweden etc. For us socialist != communist which is way further left.
As with everything there is a spectrum. I feel like in the US in some circles... socialism == communism and socialist policies are demonized.... a result of the cold war echoing through history. There is little language to describe a left of center policies.
Re: The Marshmallow Test: What Does It Really Measure?
#168Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Certainly I personally possess this trait in spades, and my personal history is full of instances where this trait was extremely useful to me. I love taking tests. Sadly, this has essentially never been any use.
Two immediate ways spring to mind, but it's a fundamental feature of my nature and I feel its influence in many of the things I do. * Liking (and therefore being good at) taking tests was useful in getting me into Cambridge, for example, and then in doing well at Cambridge. * I can feel The Desire To Pass Tests unfolding within me during interviews, like Harry James Potter-Evans-Verres's dark side, and it definitely…
I absolutely hated taking tests (despite being good at it), and it's the reason why I dropped out of grad school and started a business. Everything in academia seemed to be a never ending series of tests: first literal tests and exams, later talk proposals and article submissions and applications for scholarships or grants... Academia seemed like one test after another, with no end in sight.
At some point I just couldn't stand the feeling of other people judging me any more. I really liked university, I liked all those smart people, the work seemed interesting, but I just didn't want to be tested any more.
Being self-employed means I no longer need to take tests. (I probably couldn't start a "startup" either, since applying for investments would be like taking a test as well)
Re: The Marshmallow Test: What Does It Really Measure?
#169Earlier quoted context omitted.
First of all, I do not understand why you would argue that I don't understand the article because I supposedly claim that the test has no predictive power, since I literally write "the Marshmallow test still is predictive" . Furthermore, Smaug123's explanation here is flawed: > Assuming the trait is either heritable or culturally imbued (and intuitively it seems very likely that at least one of those is true), it mak…
> If the predictive power of the Marshmallow test could be ascribed to character traits, controlling to socio-economic backgrounds should enhance the signal of the predictive power, not remove it altogether. This might be the source of the misunderstanding: What you say would only be true if character traits and socioeconomic background were uncorrelated, which is the opposite of what smaug suggested.
If the relationship is `y=x₀+x₁+𝓝`, then x₀ is more strongly correlated to `y-x₁` than it is to `y` alone. This holds even if x₀ and x₁ are strongly correlated, as long as they're not 100% correlated.
Re: The Marshmallow Test: What Does It Really Measure?
#170Earlier quoted context omitted.
I grew up in a household without sugary cereals. My siblings and I would sing songs and dance with excitement when we had them. Socioeconomic status certainly explains the difference between cohorts, but perhaps it’s the easier signal to catch while the core mechanism is a matter of what is available in one’s household.
Why did your parents seek to create a household which avoided sugary snacks? The fact is, that itself could be representative of the genetic predisposition towards self-control.
It was a health decision. For good or bad? It could be parents who don’t trust their self-control or who have a surplus of it and expect the same from their children.