The Marshmallow Test: What Does It Really Measure? • Hacker News Board

Re: The Marshmallow Test: What Does It Really Measure?

#141

Post by alexandercrohde » Sun, Jun 03, 2018, 1:55 PM UTC

gcthomas wrote: post #7

I see so many forum discussions where posters criticise the poor for their 'weak' decisions and effectively blame the poor for their own plight. Why don't they just work harder and earn the money to pay for their healthcare and education? they say. It is easy to withhold funding from deprived areas if you convince yourself that it is their own fault. These results should be on the front pages of newspapers and on TV…

It's easy to blame "media" for that, but the media are market-driven in America. The fact that this isn't on good-morning America suggests those viewers don't care.

It'd be nice if there was an easy answer, however wanting the media would force-feed intellectualism to people is wishful thinking.

Re: The Marshmallow Test: What Does It Really Measure?

#142

Post by gordaco » Sun, Jun 03, 2018, 1:55 PM UTC

chiefalchemist wrote: post #106

fvdessen wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is poverty really linked to food scarcity in western countries anymore ? The statistics show that overall, the poor are fatter than the rich.

1) Availability to "food" and availability to __healthy food__ are two different things. 2) Poverty creates perma-stress. It effects the body. It effects the mind. It effects decision making. Poverty is not sinply about income. It's much more complicated than that.

I don't know why you are being downvoted, since this is a perfectly valid topic that has been researched: http://www.businessinsider.com/poverty-effect-on-intelligenc....

There is also an effect about being time poor and having little to no time to cook. And coming from an also poor and time poor family, and never having learned how to cook. Etc. Poverty fucks you in many ways, and is indeed a complicated beast.

Re: The Marshmallow Test: What Does It Really Measure?

#143

Post by dahart » Sun, Jun 03, 2018, 1:56 PM UTC

abainbridge wrote: post #9

> The researchers also, when analyzing their test’s results, controlled for certain factors—such as the income of a child’s household Is that a valid thing to do? If "will power" was a strongly inherited trait, and the theory is that will power leads to increase household income in adult life, then this controlling would remove most of the signal. The original paper relied partly on a questionnaire that asked the par…

> Is that a valid thing to do? If "will power" was a strongly inherited trait, and the theory is that will power leads to increase household income in adult life, then this controlling would remove most of the signal.

I would think so. If what seems like “will power” is strongly correllated with your parents’ income, that seems to demonstrate that will power is not a strongly heritable trait, thus the hypothesis is likely false.

Re: The Marshmallow Test: What Does It Really Measure?

#144

Post by orbitur » Sun, Jun 03, 2018, 1:56 PM UTC

stochastic_monk wrote: post #133

comboy wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marshmallows represent different value for kids with different background. Some can have them every day, for some it's something they only saw other kids eating. It's similar to how it would be easy to risk $50K for somebody with $100M net worth compared to somebody whose net worth is $100K.

I grew up in a household without sugary cereals. My siblings and I would sing songs and dance with excitement when we had them. Socioeconomic status certainly explains the difference between cohorts, but perhaps it’s the easier signal to catch while the core mechanism is a matter of what is available in one’s household.

Yeah, I'm a little torn on this. The OP's claim makes sense on its face, but then I think about my own household, where we're solidly upper-middle class, and my wife and I refuse to keep sugary cereals (and most other junks like Doritos or candy, etc) in our cupboard.

My daughter has definitely experienced them at birthday parties and at her grandparents'. Would she have "willpower"? I'm leaning towards "yes" because her experience has been that she can rely on people. Perhaps a poor child is simply more likely to have unreliable caretakers, so there's less trust.

Re: The Marshmallow Test: What Does It Really Measure?

#145

Post by ivanhoe » Sun, Jun 03, 2018, 1:57 PM UTC

heavenlyblue wrote: post #136

Thinking that the only reason poor kids would prefer to eat the first marshmallow due to having a low willpower is incredibly shallow: what if the kid had an experience in life that tells him that no matter how credible the source is, the second marshmallow has a huge probability of never coming; or for what's it worth - they'll take away both of them since the child tried to be "smart”? Edit: came here to attack the…

You have an over-simplistic view of the original research. It wasn't only about the "willpower", but also coping mechanisms than we employ to control our urges. And it proven that some children are way better in this than others. For instance some kids would turn their back to the cookie, or would come up with some other distraction, so that they don't think about eating it. Having this type of resourcefulness to quickly adopt to the situation is probably a personal trait that comes very handy in one's life.

Re: The Marshmallow Test: What Does It Really Measure?

#146

Post by alexandercrohde » Sun, Jun 03, 2018, 2:02 PM UTC

vixen99 wrote: post #14

tomglynch wrote: post #11

I wonder what other well known studies have incorrect conclusions

Somewhat premature to conclude that this 900-person study is definitive.

But wasn't it more premature to conclude the widely-publicized 90-person study was definitive?

Re: The Marshmallow Test: What Does It Really Measure?

#147

Post by ravar » Sun, Jun 03, 2018, 2:12 PM UTC

dahart wrote: post #143

abainbridge wrote: post #9

> The researchers also, when analyzing their test’s results, controlled for certain factors—such as the income of a child’s household Is that a valid thing to do? If "will power" was a strongly inherited trait, and the theory is that will power leads to increase household income in adult life, then this controlling would remove most of the signal. The original paper relied partly on a questionnaire that asked the par…

> Is that a valid thing to do? If "will power" was a strongly inherited trait, and the theory is that will power leads to increase household income in adult life, then this controlling would remove most of the signal. I would think so. If what seems like “will power” is strongly correllated with your parents’ income, that seems to demonstrate that will power is not a strongly heritable trait, thus the hypothesis is l…

Just because something correlates with parental income doesn't mean that it isn't heritable. Take an example that you agree with. Being white (or Asian) correlates with parental income. Those traits are also rather heritable.

Re: The Marshmallow Test: What Does It Really Measure?

#148

Post by imjustsaying » Sun, Jun 03, 2018, 2:15 PM UTC

Grue3 wrote: post #71

billner wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone who's hungry has less will power than someone who's well fed.

Consider the following experiments: - a poor man and a rich man are going to work when they each see a dollar coin on a sidewalk. Which of them would bother to pick it up? - a poor man and a rich man are both drunk after spending a night at the bar. Which one would take a $50 taxi home, and which one will take a bus for $5 (you have to wait 15 minutes for a bus). - a poor man and a rich man are both hungry and walk b…

>sidewalk coin

Rich man would pick it up, that's $720/hour if it takes 5 seconds. It's things like that that make you rich. Poor guy would probably pick it up too unless he's paranoid people will think he's poor.

>bus

Again looks like huge earnings per hour. He'll take the bus in this example unless he has something very lucrative that he's missing out on, but he's drunk so that's very unlikely.

>restaurant

Depends on the cost of the different places. It might not be worth the time to walk to the other place if the difference isn't great. If he's on a weekday lunchbreak, his time might be better spent elsewhere. Same thing for the poor guy.

Re: The Marshmallow Test: What Does It Really Measure?

#149

Post by dghughes » Sun, Jun 03, 2018, 2:16 PM UTC

stochastic_monk wrote: post #133

comboy wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marshmallows represent different value for kids with different background. Some can have them every day, for some it's something they only saw other kids eating. It's similar to how it would be easy to risk $50K for somebody with $100M net worth compared to somebody whose net worth is $100K.

I grew up in a household without sugary cereals. My siblings and I would sing songs and dance with excitement when we had them. Socioeconomic status certainly explains the difference between cohorts, but perhaps it’s the easier signal to catch while the core mechanism is a matter of what is available in one’s household.

My mother grew up on a farm with eight siblings. For Christmas they would get a single apple in their stocking from Santa! My mother said everyone would be very excited. There was an an apple orchard on the farm.

Re: The Marshmallow Test: What Does It Really Measure?

#150

Post by _red » Sun, Jun 03, 2018, 2:17 PM UTC

stochastic_monk wrote: post #133

comboy wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marshmallows represent different value for kids with different background. Some can have them every day, for some it's something they only saw other kids eating. It's similar to how it would be easy to risk $50K for somebody with $100M net worth compared to somebody whose net worth is $100K.

I grew up in a household without sugary cereals. My siblings and I would sing songs and dance with excitement when we had them. Socioeconomic status certainly explains the difference between cohorts, but perhaps it’s the easier signal to catch while the core mechanism is a matter of what is available in one’s household.

Why did your parents seek to create a household which avoided sugary snacks? The fact is, that itself could be representative of the genetic predisposition towards self-control.