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The Marshmallow Test: What Does It Really Measure?

theatlantic.com

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Re: The Marshmallow Test: What Does It Really Measure?

#41

Post by afpx »

Not surprising. One thing that I’ve learned about the rich is that they make their children comply and be conscientious. Also, they seem to be really good at creating tests that show that that they are naturally superior⸮

As a side-note (maybe someone can correct me), I thought that GWAS could so far only find two personality traits that were heritable: extroversion and neuroticism. If so, is there much point in these types of experiments except to sell pop-science books and magazines?

Re: The Marshmallow Test: What Does It Really Measure?

#42

Post by skookumchuck »

Smaug123 wrote: post #20

I found the following post [1] to make a very compelling argument that the Marshmallow test isn't really testing for the ability to defer gratification, but for a "generalised ability/desire to take and pass tests" (manifesting itself here as the desire to pass the Marshmallow test). The post argues that this is an underrecognised character trait which can predict success in today's Western test-oriented world. Certa…

Do you feel that testing is irrelevant to mastery of a subject? That testing does not test for useful skills?

Re: The Marshmallow Test: What Does It Really Measure?

#43

Post by MichaelMoser123 »

Ok, they threw in lots of other parameters: so maybe the correct question should be - what does this test predict for children of the same social background? If this is a question that may not be asked then you may reconsider your basic assumptions.

Re: The Marshmallow Test: What Does It Really Measure?

#44

Post by nemonemo »

Many comments seem to cast doubt on the marshmellow test based on the article. I honestly don’t understand how the contents of the article could lead to such conclusion. Aren’t the economic status of the family and the result of the test both correlated with the future economic status, and no causal relationship is suggested?

Re: The Marshmallow Test: What Does It Really Measure?

#45

Post by cm2187 »

orbifold wrote: post #22

I've come across variations of this conclusion many times now: That it is really your parents affluence and educational background that predicts your success in school and how much you will earn in the future. This is often portrayed as being unjust. To me it always seemed obvious that children with affluent and well educated parents are more likely to be intelligent, have good self-control and other traits that are…

Agree, which why there is very little value in these single variate analysis. To me sociology is journalism without the requirement to have readers.

Re: The Marshmallow Test: What Does It Really Measure?

#46

Post by skookumchuck »

orbifold wrote: post #22

I've come across variations of this conclusion many times now: That it is really your parents affluence and educational background that predicts your success in school and how much you will earn in the future. This is often portrayed as being unjust. To me it always seemed obvious that children with affluent and well educated parents are more likely to be intelligent, have good self-control and other traits that are…

The notion of unjustness derives from the idea that accruing wealth is a completely random process.

Re: The Marshmallow Test: What Does It Really Measure?

#47

Post by hydrox24 »

abainbridge wrote: post #9

> The researchers also, when analyzing their test’s results, controlled for certain factors—such as the income of a child’s household Is that a valid thing to do? If "will power" was a strongly inherited trait, and the theory is that will power leads to increase household income in adult life, then this controlling would remove most of the signal. The original paper relied partly on a questionnaire that asked the par…

They used a lot of different measures. I'll try and summarise the key ones here:

Academic achievement was measured using the Woodcock-Johnson Psycho-Educational Battery Revised, a "commonly used measure of cognitive ability and achievement". They used various sub-tests from this battery for measuring maths/english seperately.

Behavioural problems were measured by reports from mothers. (They used the 1991 "Child Behavior Checklist") This was apparently done to be consistent with the original report.

> [child cognitive indicators were] measured at age 24 months by the Bayley Mental Development Index (MDI; Bayley, 1991) and at age 36 months by the Bracken Basic Concept Scale (BBCS; Bracken, 1984).

And the child's home environment was measured by the HOME inventory (Caldwell & Bradley, 1984).

Re: The Marshmallow Test: What Does It Really Measure?

#48

Post by ozim »

gcthomas wrote: post #7

I see so many forum discussions where posters criticise the poor for their 'weak' decisions and effectively blame the poor for their own plight. Why don't they just work harder and earn the money to pay for their healthcare and education? they say. It is easy to withhold funding from deprived areas if you convince yourself that it is their own fault. These results should be on the front pages of newspapers and on TV…

Help children as much as it is possible. There is no other way. You cannot help adults who made weak decisions they will continue making bad decisions. It is only children economic mobility that can help poor, if we enable children to have economic mobility we are winning. One child even in big family going right way can help a lot sisters, brothers, by setting example and providing further help.

Re: The Marshmallow Test: What Does It Really Measure?

#49

Post by cm2187 »

skookumchuck wrote: post #46
orbifold wrote: post #22

I've come across variations of this conclusion many times now: That it is really your parents affluence and educational background that predicts your success in school and how much you will earn in the future. This is often portrayed as being unjust. To me it always seemed obvious that children with affluent and well educated parents are more likely to be intelligent, have good self-control and other traits that are…

The notion of unjustness derives from the idea that accruing wealth is a completely random process.

Or rather that every child is born equal and that its intelligence, skills, behaviour and success is solely the result of its education and social environment, DNA is assumed to play no part in our brain, and therefore if any deviation is observed, it must be the result of social factors, and therefore unjust.

Re: The Marshmallow Test: What Does It Really Measure?

#50

Post by Smaug123 »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #34
Smaug123 wrote: post #20

I found the following post [1] to make a very compelling argument that the Marshmallow test isn't really testing for the ability to defer gratification, but for a "generalised ability/desire to take and pass tests" (manifesting itself here as the desire to pass the Marshmallow test). The post argues that this is an underrecognised character trait which can predict success in today's Western test-oriented world. Certa…

> Certainly I personally possess this trait in spades, and my personal history is full of instances where this trait was extremely useful to me. I love taking tests. Sadly, this has essentially never been any use.

Two immediate ways spring to mind, but it's a fundamental feature of my nature and I feel its influence in many of the things I do.

* Liking (and therefore being good at) taking tests was useful in getting me into Cambridge, for example, and then in doing well at Cambridge.

* I can feel The Desire To Pass Tests unfolding within me during interviews, like Harry James Potter-Evans-Verres's dark side, and it definitely helps: my Test-Taker enjoys interviews, however scared I might be of them, so I just let the Test-Taker take the interview instead of me.

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