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The great video game exodus

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Re: The great video game exodus

#81

Post by Applejinx »

brownbat wrote: post #56
chii wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how _does_ it actually work then?

Tried to address that a few comments up. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17218381 Sorry it's a wall of text. I suck at brevity. In my defense it's a complex topic and I'm trying to credit some good points on both sides. And ok, I was too flip in my last comment, frustrated that its parent seemed to completely ignore my main point. At their best, maybe some unions do still work that way. Many don't though. Most b…

You've nailed it: the criticisms you have are literally all about centers of power. It's said power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely: I guess that's confirmed again.

The thing is, in the absence of corrupt union power, you got nothing and there's only corrupt corporate/employer power.

If you can solve for that, it'll be great. And I agree it's tragic and awful when the corrupt corporate power is only balanced by corrupt union power, none of it giving a damn for ordinary people. But that's power for ya.

waves tiny anarchist flag, or something

Re: The great video game exodus

#82

Post by Guest9812398 »

apatters wrote: post #24
georgeecollins wrote: post #14

I grew up in a time when no one thought there was a chance to have a job making video games. I remember before I finished college, someone from EA called me about a shareware game I made (distributed on a floppy! imagine). In those days EA was a small company. The guy was trying to see if I wanted a job and I didn't even think to ask. Later, in grad school, another small company, Activision put a poster advertising j…

Great comment, as a slight tangent this line stood out to me: > There is probably something else I have never heard of happening right now which is what a young person ought to be doing. The way you point out these special opportunities that existed every decade is very interesting. The common theme is an exciting new industry with a talent shortage. I guess mine was getting into programming at the dawn of the Intern…

Social media, YouTube, Twitch influencer? I was one of those kids born in the mid 80s that grew up wanting to be a video game developer, while spending time online during the early stages of the internet. The idea of being an online influencer wasn't a thing that existed back then.

Now, I hear that a lot of kids want to be YouTube stars when they get older, and there's obviously an endless stream of people trying to be Instagram celebrities.

So, that's a ship that came after video games for the next generation, and it has likely already sailed for most since the market is flooded.

---

Another one is mobile app development. 15-20 years ago I played around with a Palm Pilot, but no one considered app development as a career at that time. Now look at that industry. That was a big opportunity for people growing up in the early 90s to get in while it was taking off.

Re: The great video game exodus

#83

Post by Coincoin »

pandaman wrote: post #61
wpietri wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One other parallel that interests me comes up in this article. Frank D’Angelo got into games because he loved them as a kid. And that's ultimately what guaranteed that he'd be treated poorly: so many people want to get into games that there's always another sucker to take his place. It's the same thing with acting. The number of people who want to be Hollywood actors is much smaller than the number of people who end…

This comparison goes further - the vast majority of people who want to be actors suck at being one. Or musicians. Or writers. Or any other artists. Few who have talent/luck/x-factor get money and fame, the rest wash out. Yet, somehow, it's believed that games are completely different and everyone who wants to make games is good enough to be able make living off it.

This. I wanted to do games since I was a kid, so I assumed I would be the best at it just because I loved them so much, until I got the job. Then I realized I sucked at it. I left the field for a few years, relearned everything from scratch, reset my goals and tried again. Now I'm much happier.

Re: The great video game exodus

#84

Post by bsenftner »

"The Games Industry" is a shit hole of illegal corporate exploitation. I am one of those rare "long term game developers" - but not, because I left after 15 years of trying to develop some/any collaboration against the exploitation. I was one of the OS developers for the 3DO and the first PlayStation, a lead tech at both E.A. and Sony, lead engineer of games I know you played, and I can state first hand the illegal employment behavior is rampant to the degree those in the industry are 100% blind to actual ethical working conditions.

Life is too short to spend time in an industry of assholes. I love my friends, but collectively the games industry is a hate machine, exploiting the enthusiasm of impressionable youth to create mindless crap - just like the Abe's Oddysee world of corporate slave drivers.

Re: The great video game exodus

#85

Post by rainbowmverse »

ggg9990 wrote: post #46
astronautjones wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm glad we had unions, but they also have a dark side, where they can function more like a corrupt cartel over time. someone standing up for your rights and asking for compensation to do it is a lot more than any kind of ridiculous disruption mode you can imagine. so much of the next generation is being told coding is the only job skill they'll need, what do you think will happen when they've flooded the market? w…

Eventually, whether through unions, politics, or guns, the people who can’t code are going to demand more than zero-wage Uber driving.

And the guillotines this time around will be aesthetically flawless engineering marvels made by people who graduated into a saturated job market.

Re: The great video game exodus

#86

Post by nottorp »

ryanmarsh wrote: post #41

Building games and being over worked can’t possibly be worse than a soul sucking 40 hours as an equally underpaid enterprise dev. I’d rather be over worked but making something interesting rather than sitting in meetings all day barely writing any code and going home with no mental energy left and nothing to show for it.

Why do you think game development is interesting? It is when you're in a 3 person team where you do everything, but in the AAA teams you may be assigned arrow behaviour as your sole mind numbing task... 60-80 hours per week... :)

And don't think you're going to write engine code, no one writes engines if they can avoid it.

Re: The great video game exodus

#87

Post by walru »

Extraordinarily long hours, toxic open office work environments (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6vCBQKN0F8), poor management guided by auteurs with nothing to back up their plight and a culture of being outed when you're too old, or overpaid, is why I'm no longer there.

I think the best answer to this is the fact you can very easily still create outside of these environments on your own. The trouble is finding the other like-minded folks who still want to work in the industry but are outside of it.

Re: The great video game exodus

#88

Post by seba_dos1 »

ryanmarsh wrote: post #41

Building games and being over worked can’t possibly be worse than a soul sucking 40 hours as an equally underpaid enterprise dev. I’d rather be over worked but making something interesting rather than sitting in meetings all day barely writing any code and going home with no mental energy left and nothing to show for it.

Of course it can. For starters, during so-called "crunch time", 40 hours isn't that much. Social pressure to take overtime is so high it actually takes some courage to take a strong anti-crunch stance in this industry.

Re: The great video game exodus

#89

Post by learc83 »

dgudkov wrote: post #69
wpietri wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One other parallel that interests me comes up in this article. Frank D’Angelo got into games because he loved them as a kid. And that's ultimately what guaranteed that he'd be treated poorly: so many people want to get into games that there's always another sucker to take his place. It's the same thing with acting. The number of people who want to be Hollywood actors is much smaller than the number of people who end…

The problem with Hollywood is that a pretty face and sexy body is valued more than good acting. When market value of a good is diminished to a single dimension (which is sexiness in case of Hollywood) it's a sign of market commoditization with price being the single advantage. And a highly commoditized market is a cruel place. Always.

Looks are often a prerequisite, particularly for women, but they aren't valued more than acting ability.

There are scores of models who are more attractive than your average big name actor who fail to break into Hollywood because they can't act.

Re: The great video game exodus

#90

Post by CalRobert »

Fej wrote: post #19

I believe that part of the problem is the attitude of major publishers towards game development. There is absolutely no consideration for the artistic value of their works - they will manipulate the end product, and the developers, in any way to maximize short-term profit at the cost of everything else. Take as an example - the current loot box (gambling) controversy. Publishers have pushed this mechanic to an extrem…

"attitude of major publishers towards game development"

So very, very true. I just gave notice at my video game developer, and it made me sad to do so. The company is great, it really is! Fantastic people, etc.

But the publisher (in Southern CA naturally) is destroying it by pushing, and pushing, and pushing, and completely disregarding any semblance of proper planning. And no, they don't give two shits about the game itself - just selling more lootboxes.

I remember saying "I have a hard stop at 5:30 because my kid's day care closes at 6:00" and they thought it was just HILARIOUS to laugh about "can't their mom do that? LOL HAHAHA?"

What a bunch of braying jackasses.

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