Building games and being over worked can’t possibly be worse than a soul sucking 40 hours as an equally underpaid enterprise dev. I’d rather be over worked but making something interesting rather than sitting in meetings all day barely writing any code and going home with no mental energy left and nothing to show for it.
The great video game exodus
41–50 of 149 posts
Re: The great video game exodus
#42I think the video game industry is literally run like the movie industry except there is no union to help the people who make the actual magic happen unlike say the entertainment industry. I realize that some hate unions but some things on this world literally could not happen unless we respect people, their time, and their families. Some things are worth more than money and I"m grateful for the games I get to play.…
One other parallel that interests me comes up in this article. Frank D’Angelo got into games because he loved them as a kid. And that's ultimately what guaranteed that he'd be treated poorly: so many people want to get into games that there's always another sucker to take his place.
It's the same thing with acting. The number of people who want to be Hollywood actors is much smaller than the number of people who end up succeeding. So LA is full of would-be stars waiting tables looking for their big break. That makes it easy for exploitative jerks like Harvey Weinstein, so much so that "casting couch" is a common metaphor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casting_couch
Re: The great video game exodus
#43Sadly, most of the video game industry is a crappy place to work. I speak from experience here, having been the lead game engine developer in a studio owned by one of the largest publishers. I don't want to out them, so I'm being vague on purpose. There is little work life balance. No matter what happens, no matter how many people you destroy, you will do whatever it takes to ship in time for the Christmas season. If…
One thing I observed (and in some real life non-gaming projects) is that crunch in the end is treated as inevitable and something that just happen. Not like a failure of planning, organization, estimation that should/could be fixed or at least improved. It seems to me that the slow start is predictable. That technical dept is predictable too. That one issue is with planning that ignores these repeated problems and does not even try to fix them.
The other thing I observed IRL is that oftentimes the crunch is only go to solution for scheduling problems. It makes people feel like heroes and looks good in front of management. However, things like requirement management (saying no to features or simplifying them), effective organization (lets get rid of wasted time) etc are less likely to be used.
Crunch over 6 weeks is ineffective as everyone gets tired, but it is talked about as a go to solution to schedule problem. At some point it is more effective to take rest and think things over, but that is somehow taboo (or at least makes you seem lazy and target of resentment of those who don't rest) in crunching environment.
Re: The great video game exodus
#44I think the video game industry is literally run like the movie industry except there is no union to help the people who make the actual magic happen unlike say the entertainment industry. I realize that some hate unions but some things on this world literally could not happen unless we respect people, their time, and their families. Some things are worth more than money and I"m grateful for the games I get to play.…
> I realize that some hate unions but some things on this world literally could not happen unless we respect people, their time, and their families.
The cornerstone of the case against unions isn't that we should stop respecting people, it's that unions are often no longer the best way to accomplish that goal.
Not to detract from early labor movements, the fights for basic workplace safety and overtime in the twentieth century and those people standing up to violence and harassment for basic human rights were heroic.
I'm glad we had unions, but they also have a dark side, where they can function more like a corrupt cartel over time.
Even without Hoffa-style criminality, they can become unintentionally, institutionally abusive. I've worked blue collar jobs in the rural US and had coworkers rant about their family getting eaten alive by the system. They'd explain how the unions would abuse their new probationary employees by making them work triple shifts in order to drive them away from the profession. I've known career extras desperate for a SAG card basically excluded from doing what they love because the slots are capped, and they're aging out of their passion while they wait their turn. Paying your dues can have a few meanings for people in those jobs. That's even setting aside how it creates steep power differentials that become a magnet for predatory gatekeepers like Weinstein.
I don't feel like typical pro or anti union positions do justice to the complexity here.
I think you have to acknowledge that unions have put a spotlight on massive social failings. But I think we also need to recognize their pathologies as well. Generally we need to move those solutions into less partial laws and courts, instead of creating another unchecked center of power over workers.
Re: The great video game exodus
#45I think the video game industry is literally run like the movie industry except there is no union to help the people who make the actual magic happen unlike say the entertainment industry. I realize that some hate unions but some things on this world literally could not happen unless we respect people, their time, and their families. Some things are worth more than money and I"m grateful for the games I get to play.…
> I realize that some hate unions but some things on this world literally could not happen unless we respect people, their time, and their families. The cornerstone of the case against unions isn't that we should stop respecting people, it's that unions are often no longer the best way to accomplish that goal. Not to detract from early labor movements, the fights for basic workplace safety and overtime in the twentie…
> I'm glad we had unions, but they also have a dark side, where they can function more like a corrupt cartel over time.
someone standing up for your rights and asking for compensation to do it is a lot more than any kind of ridiculous disruption mode you can imagine.
so much of the next generation is being told coding is the only job skill they'll need, what do you think will happen when they've flooded the market? we live in a plutocracy waging a war on workers rights, we are gonna need unions and we're gonna need them immediately.
Re: The great video game exodus
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I realize that some hate unions but some things on this world literally could not happen unless we respect people, their time, and their families. The cornerstone of the case against unions isn't that we should stop respecting people, it's that unions are often no longer the best way to accomplish that goal. Not to detract from early labor movements, the fights for basic workplace safety and overtime in the twentie…
> I'm glad we had unions, but they also have a dark side, where they can function more like a corrupt cartel over time. someone standing up for your rights and asking for compensation to do it is a lot more than any kind of ridiculous disruption mode you can imagine. so much of the next generation is being told coding is the only job skill they'll need, what do you think will happen when they've flooded the market? w…
Eventually, whether through unions, politics, or guns, the people who can’t code are going to demand more than zero-wage Uber driving.
Re: The great video game exodus
#47Sadly, most of the video game industry is a crappy place to work. I speak from experience here, having been the lead game engine developer in a studio owned by one of the largest publishers. I don't want to out them, so I'm being vague on purpose. There is little work life balance. No matter what happens, no matter how many people you destroy, you will do whatever it takes to ship in time for the Christmas season. If…
One thing I observed (and in some real life non-gaming projects) is that crunch in the end is treated as inevitable and something that just happen. Not like a failure of planning, organization, estimation that should/could be fixed or at least improved. It seems to me that the slow start is predictable. That technical dept is predictable too. That one issue is with planning that ignores these repeated problems and do…
The problem here is that there is no incentive for the companies to do things reasonably, because as many people is saying in these comments, there is a virtually unlimited supply of young, exploitable workers.
For any midsized or large company, the system is working as intended (small companies often have legitimate problems, though). For the workers, not so much; but again, the companies don't give a shit.
There are a lot of bullshit excuses for not having unions (half of them come from propaganda from the managerial class and pro-corporation ideologues, the other half from people parroting said propaganda), but I'm yet to see a single one that outweighs the benefits of having an union and having workers actually stand for their rights and for the respect they deserve.
Re: The great video game exodus
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I realize that some hate unions but some things on this world literally could not happen unless we respect people, their time, and their families. The cornerstone of the case against unions isn't that we should stop respecting people, it's that unions are often no longer the best way to accomplish that goal. Not to detract from early labor movements, the fights for basic workplace safety and overtime in the twentie…
> I'm glad we had unions, but they also have a dark side, where they can function more like a corrupt cartel over time. someone standing up for your rights and asking for compensation to do it is a lot more than any kind of ridiculous disruption mode you can imagine. so much of the next generation is being told coding is the only job skill they'll need, what do you think will happen when they've flooded the market? w…
> someone standing up for your rights and asking for compensation to do it
They sure would be awfully fine institutions if that's how they actually worked.
Re: The great video game exodus
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I'm glad we had unions, but they also have a dark side, where they can function more like a corrupt cartel over time. someone standing up for your rights and asking for compensation to do it is a lot more than any kind of ridiculous disruption mode you can imagine. so much of the next generation is being told coding is the only job skill they'll need, what do you think will happen when they've flooded the market? w…
> someone standing up for your rights and asking for compensation to do it They sure would be awfully fine institutions if that's how they actually worked.
So how _does_ it actually work then?
Re: The great video game exodus
#50It's been the same story for the last 20 years (or longer but that's when I started). There's an infinite supply of young naive people who will work for poor pay and under terrible conditions because "games". There's nothing you can do to help. Young people are physically incapable of learning from someone else's experience. Companies are happy with that situation because they don't mind not having experienced devs. Those demand higher salaries or sane working hours - can't allow those. I mean what's next? Pension funds?!