The birthrate in the U.S. is the lowest it’s been in 30 years • Hacker News Board

Re: The birthrate in the U.S. is the lowest it’s been in 30 years

#111

Post by u90g4u8904 » Fri, Jun 01, 2018, 2:24 PM UTC

sametmax wrote: post #95

salawat wrote: post #3

There were a couple points in there that could, may, should have been left on the cutting room floor. Some good points were made however. Social Security in its original Ponzi-Schemesque form will end up even worse for wear with declining birthrates. (Not saying Social Security is bad in concept, but it only works in times of sharp population growth, and even then, banking on the youth to carry you just because seems…

Also a lot of people don't want children. It's a lot of responsabilities and constraints, so you need to feel the desired for it. The new generation grew with aids, feel less influenced by the authority selling the one family lifestyle and use more contraception. Now wait for Vasalgel to take off. When males will have total control of their involvment in pregnancy, you will see the numbers go down even more. And prob…

There's a problem with that argument.

http://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2018/05/23/birth-rate-drop

Stephanie Coontz, professor of history and family studies at The Evergreen State College:

"I think the most important and concerning thing about this is not the number of people who are voluntarily childless, but the tremendous gap between the number of children women said they wanted to have and the number that they will probably have. Early this year, the gap reached its highest level in 40 years. I think we need to think very seriously about what it is that pushes people into this kind of 'delaying.'"

Re: The birthrate in the U.S. is the lowest it’s been in 30 years

#112

Post by u90g4u8904 » Fri, Jun 01, 2018, 2:31 PM UTC

matte_black wrote: post #21

There is a theory that the root cause of these problems is the continued dismantling of traditional gender roles. If women had not entered the workforce in massive numbers things could have continued based on old trajectories. The male breadwinner/housewife lifestyle was a formula that made it ideal for raising children cheaply, even if it didn’t seem like the most equitable. If I had a good job and settled with a wi…

Sounds to me like the problem isn't dismantling of gender roles and more that our society and workplace was designed for single income families. This is why many activists are fighting for paid family leave (including paternal leave), more flexibile work schedules, and affordable child care.

Re: The birthrate in the U.S. is the lowest it’s been in 30 years

#113

Post by sametmax » Fri, Jun 01, 2018, 2:51 PM UTC

u90g4u8904 wrote: post #111

sametmax wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also a lot of people don't want children. It's a lot of responsabilities and constraints, so you need to feel the desired for it. The new generation grew with aids, feel less influenced by the authority selling the one family lifestyle and use more contraception. Now wait for Vasalgel to take off. When males will have total control of their involvment in pregnancy, you will see the numbers go down even more. And prob…

There's a problem with that argument. http://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2018/05/23/birth-rate-drop Stephanie Coontz, professor of history and family studies at The Evergreen State College: "I think the most important and concerning thing about this is not the number of people who are voluntarily childless, but the tremendous gap between the number of children women said they wanted to have and the number that they will pro…

There is a problem with that argument.

You often need a man to make the baby.

Re: The birthrate in the U.S. is the lowest it’s been in 30 years

#114

Post by heurist » Fri, Jun 01, 2018, 2:59 PM UTC

dominotw wrote: post #104

heurist wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife prefers a career working with autistic children, and earns much less than I do as a software developer because of that preference. She is amazing and I want to enable her to do whatever she is happiest doing using the money I am fortunate to be earning, as much as she is willing to let me help. You're looking at other human beings as merely economic objects and that's not going to net you happiness long-term.…

> You're looking at other human beings as merely economic objects I don't mean to be offensive but don't you think she considered your earning potential while choosing you as her husband? There is nothing wrong with doing it, ppl have beeen doing it forever. Nothing immoral about it. It does go into the equation.

My wife cares very little about money. She developed her own methods for getting the most out of life without it, and is always suggesting that I spend less of it. I've been able to show her the benefits of having extra money and she's been able to show me how to live well frugally (not that I'm a big spender in the first place).

Re: The birthrate in the U.S. is the lowest it’s been in 30 years

#115

Post by mikestew » Fri, Jun 01, 2018, 2:59 PM UTC

sbinthree wrote: post #46

As a 24 year old married man sitting in the nursery with my premature son, I feel truly sad that more people cannot experience this. I don't have a house, I rent my apartment, we share a car and we both (were) working. So what? Time marches on. So many people seem cynical about having kids or doing anything else involving sacrificing happiness for meaning. And yet people complain of indulgence and a lack of meaning?…

So many people seem cynical about having kids or doing anything else involving sacrificing happiness for meaning.

Ah, the ol' "kids give my life meaning, how can anyone live a life without meaning?" trope. Hey, more power to you, but spreading DNA around isn't the only road to a meaningful life. Your false choice of "have kids, or live a life of hedonism" strikes me as the argument of the religious zealot. Speaking of religion, Jesus Christ didn't have kids, and he seemed to do okay on the "meaningful" scale.

If you don't want kids, don't have them.

And if you do have them, try to avoid attempting to convince the rest of the world that yours is the only right, moral, and meaningful choice.

Re: The birthrate in the U.S. is the lowest it’s been in 30 years

#116

Post by u90g4u8904 » Fri, Jun 01, 2018, 4:10 PM UTC

sametmax wrote: post #113

u90g4u8904 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a problem with that argument. http://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2018/05/23/birth-rate-drop Stephanie Coontz, professor of history and family studies at The Evergreen State College: "I think the most important and concerning thing about this is not the number of people who are voluntarily childless, but the tremendous gap between the number of children women said they wanted to have and the number that they will pro…

There is a problem with that argument. You often need a man to make the baby.

huh? What part of my comment are you replying to?

Edit: I see we're talking past eachother. I was responding to your claim that "Also a lot of people don't want children." I'm pointing out that, while that's true, the real problem is people who report wanting children but not having any.

I wasn't responding to your comment about male birth control. Although if you want my opinion, I think it will be good for men to share the burden of family planning. But I doubt it will cause the birth rates to plummet much. Men want children too.

Re: The birthrate in the U.S. is the lowest it’s been in 30 years

#117

Post by p3llin0r3 » Fri, Jun 01, 2018, 4:11 PM UTC

nunez wrote: post #34

Why would we have kids and suffer when we could not have kids and enjoy life to the fullest? We make just enough to have a really good life without kids or have a really stressful life with them. We don’t even have a house yet (and I mostly don’t want one, but that’s another conversation). I ran the numbers, and I didn’t like the outcome. Everyone that I know that has kids is sleep deprived, unable to do much of anyt…

Don't listen to the breeders.

You can choose to have a family when you want.

You don't need to share blood with your child in order for it to be a meaningful and fulfilling relationship.

I'm from a large extended family that has overwhelmingly chosen to not breed and adopt children into our lives, when we are READY and WANT THEM, instead.

I'm proud of the fact that I will never breed. I will probably raise a child at some point though. Genetics are over-rated.

Re: The birthrate in the U.S. is the lowest it’s been in 30 years

#118

Post by beagle3 » Fri, Jun 01, 2018, 4:22 PM UTC

Tohhou wrote: post #52

kartan wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is a theory that the root cause of these problems is the continued dismantling of traditional gender roles. Except that Japan has kept traditional gender roles, where the woman leaves her job when marries, and they have one of the lower fertility rates in the world. At the same time, Sweden with very strong gender equality has a higher fertility rate than other European countries. Even that it is still low co…

Western countries have lower rates than Japan when you exclude for native birth rates. Western countries get a big boost in birth rate when you account for non-natives having population booms.

With the exception of Israel & Ireland, which are the only two western countries to have a positive native birth rate (avg >2.2 births/woman - supposedly 2.2 is the magic number that keeps a population size stable).

Re: The birthrate in the U.S. is the lowest it’s been in 30 years

#119

Post by sametmax » Fri, Jun 01, 2018, 4:23 PM UTC

u90g4u8904 wrote: post #116

sametmax wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a problem with that argument. You often need a man to make the baby.

huh? What part of my comment are you replying to? Edit: I see we're talking past eachother. I was responding to your claim that "Also a lot of people don't want children." I'm pointing out that, while that's true, the real problem is people who report wanting children but not having any. I wasn't responding to your comment about male birth control. Although if you want my opinion, I think it will be good for men to s…

> but the tremendous gap between the number of children women said they wanted to have and the number that they will probably have

If you interrogate only women, it's completely off.

Re: The birthrate in the U.S. is the lowest it’s been in 30 years

#120

Post by dominotw » Fri, Jun 01, 2018, 4:30 PM UTC

heurist wrote: post #114

dominotw wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're looking at other human beings as merely economic objects I don't mean to be offensive but don't you think she considered your earning potential while choosing you as her husband? There is nothing wrong with doing it, ppl have beeen doing it forever. Nothing immoral about it. It does go into the equation.

My wife cares very little about money. She developed her own methods for getting the most out of life without it, and is always suggesting that I spend less of it. I've been able to show her the benefits of having extra money and she's been able to show me how to live well frugally (not that I'm a big spender in the first place).

Thats awesome man!. Congrats on finding a good mate.