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Facebook Tools Are Used to Screen Out Older Job Seekers, Lawsuit Claims

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Re: Facebook Tools Are Used to Screen Out Older Job Seekers, Lawsuit Claims

#171

I sometimes wonder how much the fear of something is actually an additional problem to the thing itself. NOTE: I am not denying agism exists, I'm wondering about the additional problem of fear of agism. The fear that someone might be agist, might make you look at them judgmentally/suspiciously. If you look at your interviewer judgmentally/suspiciously they likely won't hire you, and they probably feel pretty suspicio…

While this might be interesting academically, I think if ageism is a problem that might generically scare candidates, then that too is the ageists fault for creating that culture of policy, and not a candidate's fault for sincerely being worried about something that is actually worth worrying about. We could say something similar about racism. "How much of a factor the fear of racism is, compared to racism itself..."…

The racist wins if he can spoil your other interviews. Let's say you have 4 interviews, the first one has a racist, and it's obvious. Now let's say you get bitter and resentful, and you blow your other 3 interviews, even though those 3 people aren't racist. The racist is happy(if he finds out) because not only did he prevent you from getting his job, he messed with your head and prevented you from getting the attainable 3 jobs.

So, within the scenario above, racism can take one toll or many tolls. And this is on the individual level, wherein people operate from day to day. They need a job. It would seem that being able to reset expectations, forgive, forbear, and go into the subsequent 3 interviews would be the ideal strategy to achieve success in job hunting, and prevent the racist from doing the most damage.

Since you mentioned 2nd order effects: how much do the 2nd order effects recreate/reinforce the first order effects? This would be another psychological survey I would be interested in.

If someone is fearful of racists, how many people are likely to become more racist as a result of this fear ( either themselves or people they come in contact with )? Isn't racism based on fear in the first place? Fear of other races? ( and therefore a reaction to fight or flight arbitrarily based on race? )

Batman: "Gee Robbin, I notice you are afraid when you are around people of other races" Robbin: "Well it's because I think they're racist against me" slap Batman: "Robbin you are becoming the thing you fear the most!"

Re: Facebook Tools Are Used to Screen Out Older Job Seekers, Lawsuit Claims

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So everyone in the same role goes through the same interview, and everyone in the same role goes through the same 6 week bootcamp. The aim, as I understand it, is to avoid talk like 'that person was hired into team X, they must suck at Y' or 'org X is easy to get in to, I wouldn't want to work with someone who was hired into it', and to allow more internal mobility without the need to reinterview. I can join any team…

> ... to avoid talk like 'that person was hired into team X, they must suck at Y' or 'org X is easy to get in to, I wouldn't want to work with someone who was hired into it', This is why you do your best to hire mature employees no matter their age and fire immature employees, no matter their age.

I assume you mean that employees who think their colleagues must suck at Y because they are on team X, or who worry themselves about whether some other team's chosen hiring standards are "too easy," are the immature ones?

(And presumably it's immature to even care about 'sucking at Y' at all, unless a specific task requires skill at Y and is not being solved, in which case it sounds like a problem of assigning it to the wrong person, not a problem of general hiring for Y in all cases.)

Re: Facebook Tools Are Used to Screen Out Older Job Seekers, Lawsuit Claims

#173
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a programmer in my late 50s. While age discrimination is real, and I certainly have my share of "not a culture fit" and "overqualified" rejections over the past 10 years, if you're getting rejected over 90% of the time then I strongly suspect the problem isn't age discrimination. It's much more likely that your skills are out of date or you've gained some bad interviewing habits that you should examine. If people…

No way. Sorry to be blunt. Sure, my speed has decreased a little. But, I make better decisions which saves orders more time. And, my skills are still solidly top 15-20%. I know most modern databases, Java, Scala, Python, JavaScript, Angular, React ... the list goes on. I only claim to be an expert in things I’m actually an expert in. To be fair, I do try to interview at interesting companies. So, that could be the pr…

Yeah, but how's your perl? :P

Re: Facebook Tools Are Used to Screen Out Older Job Seekers, Lawsuit Claims

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may also mean that the employer has reasons to believe that the candidate is well aware of his/her skill level and will treat this job as temporary while looking for a higher position in another company.

All jobs are temporary, some more so than others.

Yes, and no one jumps ship like a young tech worker at the base of their salary curve. The flip side of being able to code all day as a younger engineer is that nothing’s tying you to a job or location. One call from a recruiter in NYC, SF or Seattle and you’re gone.

Re: Facebook Tools Are Used to Screen Out Older Job Seekers, Lawsuit Claims

#175
post #2

Excellent news! Up until age 39, I was never not given an offer after interviewing. Now after 40, my offer rate has dropped to 1 in 14. So much for the claims that there is a shortage in tech. So crazy.

Are you in the Bay area? I think that in the bay area it is easier to find a tech job regardless of age. Startups are one place but there are a lot of smaller established tech companies. Try biomedical companies or pharma. At some point, basically every company is a tech company or use technology in some way which requires a few software engineers. Even so.. even the big "old" companies (aka IBM) routinely try to remove older workers from their payrolls: https://features.propublica.org/ibm/ibm-age-discrimination-a...

Re: Facebook Tools Are Used to Screen Out Older Job Seekers, Lawsuit Claims

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the group has settled on using React, the last thing they want is someone constantly trying to convert them to Angular. Older developers have seen enough technology fads come and go that they are much less likely to do this than a young, excitable one.

Older devs, after seeing enough technology fads, are much more sensitive to bullshit. Which makes them a bit sarcastic WRT any new fad. Not a desirable trait from the employer's perspective :)

I've been an employer for a long time and would prefer a critical thinker over a fad-of-the-day lemming any day.

Re: Facebook Tools Are Used to Screen Out Older Job Seekers, Lawsuit Claims

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one will even talk to you about a management position, without already having been a manager, no matter how much experience you have as a developer. The only path to management is to acquire it from the inside.

This is the absolute truth. I've been a lead or performing the role of a lead for most of my career. Recently I started taking on management responsibilities, then I got a new VP who decided I needed a manager because I didn't have the experience. I've seen people who can't manage their way out of a paper bag, but seemingly despite the fact that I've been filling the role for the past year, I'm not qualified for it.…

Your new manager is very likely to be a friend of the VP.

Re: Facebook Tools Are Used to Screen Out Older Job Seekers, Lawsuit Claims

#178

Would radio ads be discrimination because they generally target and older audience? Or TV adds on shows that are generally viewed by older audiences or younger audiences? If it is discrimination to only show Facebook job ads to certain demographics, it should also be descrimination to show ads on platforms only viewed by certain demographics.

lol this is a pretty lame argument. radio stations would love more young listeners. it’s a little differnt than intentionally filtering out some of your audience

Re: Facebook Tools Are Used to Screen Out Older Job Seekers, Lawsuit Claims

#180
post #2

Excellent news! Up until age 39, I was never not given an offer after interviewing. Now after 40, my offer rate has dropped to 1 in 14. So much for the claims that there is a shortage in tech. So crazy.

how would they know you’re 39 versus 40 in the interview process?
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