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Facebook Tools Are Used to Screen Out Older Job Seekers, Lawsuit Claims

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Re: Facebook Tools Are Used to Screen Out Older Job Seekers, Lawsuit Claims

#161

Post by resource0x »

ams6110 wrote: post #143
xamuel wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe people are worried you'll rock the boat with all those technologies you list. If the group has settled on using React, the last thing they want is someone constantly trying to convert them to Angular. Another possibility is you don't know those things as well as you think. When you say React do you mean React v.16? Does that include webpack, and if so, which version? If you're claiming to be an expert on all th…

> If the group has settled on using React, the last thing they want is someone constantly trying to convert them to Angular. Older developers have seen enough technology fads come and go that they are much less likely to do this than a young, excitable one.

Older devs, after seeing enough technology fads, are much more sensitive to bullshit. Which makes them a bit sarcastic WRT any new fad. Not a desirable trait from the employer's perspective :)

Re: Facebook Tools Are Used to Screen Out Older Job Seekers, Lawsuit Claims

#162

Post by JustSomeNobody »

lclarkmichalek wrote: post #104
mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know. I was recommended to a specific domain-specialized role in Facebook by someone with a long tenure inside the company, and after the recommendation, I was just auto-routed into the standard, crappy candidate pipeline like everyone else, told I'd have to do whatever 6-month rotation bootcamp, asked why I didn't have a bunch of Javascript experience. It certainly felt like they make an effort to pedantical…

So everyone in the same role goes through the same interview, and everyone in the same role goes through the same 6 week bootcamp. The aim, as I understand it, is to avoid talk like 'that person was hired into team X, they must suck at Y' or 'org X is easy to get in to, I wouldn't want to work with someone who was hired into it', and to allow more internal mobility without the need to reinterview. I can join any team…

> ... to avoid talk like 'that person was hired into team X, they must suck at Y' or 'org X is easy to get in to, I wouldn't want to work with someone who was hired into it',

This is why you do your best to hire mature employees no matter their age and fire immature employees, no matter their age.

Re: Facebook Tools Are Used to Screen Out Older Job Seekers, Lawsuit Claims

#163

Post by 1123581321 »

tremendo wrote: post #146
CPLX wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone that's hired a lot of people being overqualified is an actual reason not to want to hire an applicant. The reason is because they are not likely to last in the position. Not every company is some high growth engineering phenomenon. Sometimes you need someone to fill a specific role and you'd like them to be stable in that role.

In which case the applicant's employment history would be a lot more relevant. As in, have they been job-hopping, historically "not-lasting" at a job? or do they commit to their work and see it through. If you're offering a decent job and pay fairly, there's no reason to assume an applicant will simply "not last" only because of them being "over-qualified", whatever that means.

No, sorry. The issue is that a job that pays fairly for the position doesn’t feel fair to someone who is settling until they get the job they really want. That kind of person really is likely to leave quickly. Whether it’s worth hiring someone who wants to leave immediately depends on how quickly the company can get new hires up to speed and how much effort they put into interviewing.

Now, a company can define overqualified incorrectly. And they can misjudge the cost of a temporary hire. But people really do apply for jobs they think are beneath them until they get an offer.

Re: Facebook Tools Are Used to Screen Out Older Job Seekers, Lawsuit Claims

#164

Post by mlthoughts2018 »

agrippanux wrote: post #156

Age discrimination being rampant in our industry is a fantastic opportunity for an astute hiring manager. I go out of my way to hire older devs that are eschewed by typical Bay Area startups. I can get a seasoned pro with a solid background in C - and other more trendy languages - for about the same price of a 3-years-working-experience "senior dev" who likely was battlefield commissioned into the role at their last…

> The typical solid dev can only put in 4, maybe 5-6 hours of actual good coding a day.

Outside of extremely rare triage situations, this limit is true for all developers, regardless of age or quality of output. Beyond about the 6 hour mark, people can force themselves to sit in a chair and hit keys on a keyboard like the Swedish chef from the muppets, but it's pure management denial to believe those hours count as "productivity" and in fact when the defect rates start to get high and fatigue compounds and morale drops, it's really anti-productive.

Really, younger age is just usually correlated with fewer extracurricular responsibilities, i.e. home repair, health maintenance, domestic responsibilities, marriage, children, etc. These things tend to increase with age, making it a scheduling impossibility for older workers to sit in the chair at 8 pm going "hur duh dur" while slapping keys.

Re: Facebook Tools Are Used to Screen Out Older Job Seekers, Lawsuit Claims

#165

Post by xamuel »

ams6110 wrote: post #143
xamuel wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe people are worried you'll rock the boat with all those technologies you list. If the group has settled on using React, the last thing they want is someone constantly trying to convert them to Angular. Another possibility is you don't know those things as well as you think. When you say React do you mean React v.16? Does that include webpack, and if so, which version? If you're claiming to be an expert on all th…

> If the group has settled on using React, the last thing they want is someone constantly trying to convert them to Angular. Older developers have seen enough technology fads come and go that they are much less likely to do this than a young, excitable one.

I'm not far from being an older dev, and I've been struggling more and more with cynicism in myself. Everything you said is 100% true, but I have to force myself to avoid phrases like "technology fad" or "young, excitable devs" when I'm mentoring younger devs. Because even though those things are true, verbalizing them would demoralize the team.

Re: Facebook Tools Are Used to Screen Out Older Job Seekers, Lawsuit Claims

#166

Post by GhostVII »

Would radio ads be discrimination because they generally target and older audience? Or TV adds on shows that are generally viewed by older audiences or younger audiences? If it is discrimination to only show Facebook job ads to certain demographics, it should also be descrimination to show ads on platforms only viewed by certain demographics.

Re: Facebook Tools Are Used to Screen Out Older Job Seekers, Lawsuit Claims

#167

Post by raarts »

tyrust wrote: post #116
afpx wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No way. Sorry to be blunt. Sure, my speed has decreased a little. But, I make better decisions which saves orders more time. And, my skills are still solidly top 15-20%. I know most modern databases, Java, Scala, Python, JavaScript, Angular, React ... the list goes on. I only claim to be an expert in things I’m actually an expert in. To be fair, I do try to interview at interesting companies. So, that could be the pr…

Resistance to constructive criticism is a potential no-hire signal.

> resistance to constructive criticism

Very curious where you detect that in GP?

Re: Facebook Tools Are Used to Screen Out Older Job Seekers, Lawsuit Claims

#168

Post by always_good »

mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #164
agrippanux wrote: post #156

Age discrimination being rampant in our industry is a fantastic opportunity for an astute hiring manager. I go out of my way to hire older devs that are eschewed by typical Bay Area startups. I can get a seasoned pro with a solid background in C - and other more trendy languages - for about the same price of a 3-years-working-experience "senior dev" who likely was battlefield commissioned into the role at their last…

> The typical solid dev can only put in 4, maybe 5-6 hours of actual good coding a day. Outside of extremely rare triage situations, this limit is true for all developers, regardless of age or quality of output. Beyond about the 6 hour mark, people can force themselves to sit in a chair and hit keys on a keyboard like the Swedish chef from the muppets, but it's pure management denial to believe those hours count as "…

> this limit is true for all developers

Maybe sober, but that's not the limit once you factor in the rampant use of amphetamine.

Re: Facebook Tools Are Used to Screen Out Older Job Seekers, Lawsuit Claims

#169

Post by [deleted] »

tyrust wrote: post #116
afpx wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No way. Sorry to be blunt. Sure, my speed has decreased a little. But, I make better decisions which saves orders more time. And, my skills are still solidly top 15-20%. I know most modern databases, Java, Scala, Python, JavaScript, Angular, React ... the list goes on. I only claim to be an expert in things I’m actually an expert in. To be fair, I do try to interview at interesting companies. So, that could be the pr…

Resistance to constructive criticism is a potential no-hire signal.

[deleted]

Re: Facebook Tools Are Used to Screen Out Older Job Seekers, Lawsuit Claims

#170

Post by rohansingh »

bluGill wrote: post #76
wmeredith wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if they were targeting older workers as part of a diversity program?

That is discrimination against younger workers. Diversity programs are a double edged sword, there are groups that are under represented. However every time you target them you lose the larger group that you didn't target, and that group has great people.

Not making a judgement either way, but just a heads-up— there's actually no federal prohibition against discriminating on the basis of youth. Age discrimination laws only work in one direction.
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