GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules • Hacker News Board

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#451

Post by stale2002 » Fri, May 25, 2018, 6:14 PM UTC

roel_v wrote: post #70

ghaff wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>closing yourself for an market that size will hurt more than changing a few thing to be compliant Only if I make significant money from that market. If most of my revenue/profit comes from the US and it's problematic to "do business" in the EU or China, why wouldn't I want to just cut access off rather than dealing with potential hassles? The fact that it's potentially a large market is irrelevant to me. In this cas…

I see this 'VPN' argument a lot, but it's wrong. If the Chicago Tribune tracks users accessing their site through a VPN, without informed consent, they are in violation. Art 3 para 2 in b makes the Regulation apply to them and doesn't make provisions about whether the controller or processor has a way to find out if the behaviour of the data subject takes place within the Union. I don't see any reason for a different…

If you use a VPN to access a server that does it want you to access it, then you are breaking the computer fraud and abuse act in the United States.

Shouldnt you be the one sent to jail, as you are illegally accessing a computer that you were sepecially told not to access?

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#452

Post by zmb_ » Fri, May 25, 2018, 6:15 PM UTC

eyeinthepyramid wrote: post #378

bmelton wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Snark aside, that doesn't dispute the thesis that regulations tend to favor incumbents. Some regulations are good. Some regulations are bad. Some regulations are smart. Some regulations are dumb. Reasonable people can disagree on the quality or intelligence of a given regulation, or its impact on a given industry, but that doesn't change that most regulations do tend to make products more expensive to manufacture and…

There are benefits to washing the eggs, isn't there? I have read that in Europe as a consumer it's a lot more important to wash the eggs before using them.

I have lived all my life in Europe, in three different countries and with friends and colleagues from many more. and I have never seen or even heard about anyone washing eggs. So if it happens, it is certainly not a Europe-wide norm.

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#453

Post by giobox » Fri, May 25, 2018, 6:16 PM UTC

fixermark wrote: post #430

tommorris wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking about getting in to the car market but all these pesky requirements that I sell a car with airbags and seatbelts and fuel efficiency compliance are just there to protect existing incumbents.

You can make fun of it, but there's a reason that Silicon Valley venture capital goes to software engineering (where regulations have generally been lower) while significant disruption in the automotive space is coming from incumbents and one company founded by a guy with a net worth of $18 billion.

This is a hugely simplistic comparison. There's far, far more complexity to why the automotive space sees less "disruption" than just regulations.

You can launch and run a business similar to Facebook from a dorm room.

A car factory? Not so much, regardless of the regulatory issues.

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#454

Post by hellowrld2 » Fri, May 25, 2018, 6:16 PM UTC

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #440

hellowrld2 wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Sure. But please remind me, how did we end up with VW case on a GDPR topic in the first place?

The original poster believes software should be regulated like cars. I pointed out that the fines for violating gdpr are larger than any fine VW will ever receive from the EU for literally killing people.

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#455

Post by lima » Fri, May 25, 2018, 6:16 PM UTC

repolfx wrote: post #421

oaiey wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am writing replies on GDPR topics the other way around ("I see you are from the US"). GDPR is a regulation for a topic which is important in the European societies. Not so much in the US (free capitalism) or China (social score).

It really annoys me how many self-styled "Europeans" on HN feel free to speak for an entire continent. Firstly, the EU is not the same thing as Europe. Yes EU officials and supporters love to use the word "Europe" when they mean EU - I find it nasty and manipulative. Secondly, I'm from an EU country, now live in Europe but not in the EU, and I think GDPR is absurd. A great example of the general malaise and decline o…

> It really annoys me how many self-styled "Europeans" on HN feel free to speak for an entire continent.

> As I have pointed out elsewhere, GDPR is not even remotely an important topic to people in the EU.

Just pointing out the irony...

I can't speak on behalf of anyone except myself, but I can confirm that, while it's not the #1 thing people are concerned about, people do worry about privacy. Especially in Germany and the neighboring countries.

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#456

Post by throwaway974 » Fri, May 25, 2018, 6:17 PM UTC

bo1024 wrote: post #352

rdlecler1 wrote: post #138

They claim that everyone had a lot of time, but what about the 1-3 person startup that’s been around for 4-5 years who is just getting by and didn’t have the resources to re-engineer their entire application or to write up a complex privacy policy or hire an EU Representative (Yes, apparently that is required as well). If the EU does clamp down on forced consent I think the long tail of small startups and publication…

If the 1-3 person startup's application is geared around personal information and it needs a complex privacy policy to describe what it does with data, then yes, it will have to work very hard to comply with GDPR, but that will also result in meaningful improvements in privacy and data control for its customers. Do you have examples of startups where data is not a core business concern, who still find it very onerous…

Here's an example:

I have a profitable, bootstrapped SaaS business based in US . It's not based on ads or selling data. I don't even have a freemium plan. Only a limited free trial after which you have to start paying. It's a trivial application that stores mostly already public data. Only email is required to login so that I can send password reset and other such communication.

I've been talking to a very well known giant corporation (also based in US, but has many global offices) for months. The VP and director love my product and want to start using it right away for their department. But their legal team is scared shitless with 4% fines in GDPR. They are putting some draconian clauses (various ISO certifications and such) in the contract that I, as a small company, cannot comply. That's their interpretation of GDPR. It doesn't matter whether it's right or wrong.

The VP and Director are really nice people and I've developed very good rapport with them. But I'm afraid their patience will run out soon and they'll go back to using spreadsheets. A lose-lose situation.

This is the side-effect of GDPR.

I'm all up for GDPR. I have uBlock, have blackholed all Facebook domains, etc. But don't assume that GDPR doesn't affect normal business transactions. Anyone who says, "Oh, how hard could it be?" has no idea what they are talking about.

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#457

Post by ryanwaggoner » Fri, May 25, 2018, 6:17 PM UTC

repolfx wrote: post #429

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's because of a deep cultural divide. EU users who are big fans of the GDPR genuinely admire the law, both its intent and implementation, and also have a very positive view of the government. They believe that regulators will try to help companies comply, and will only fine as a last resort. Whereas in the US, we tend to be fairly skeptical of government. And as a consequence, since EU users think this law…

Bear in mind GDPR seems to have become some sort of totemic issue for the small minority of people in Europe who are true-blue died in the wool ideological supporters of the EU project. They are flooding GDPR discussions with these sorts of views. A good give away is they say "speaking as a European" or use the term "EU citizen" (there is no such thing, the EU as an institution does not have citizens or issue passpor…

I'm sure they'd say the same about those of us who are skeptical of the implementation of this law, even if we like the intent :)

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#458

Post by globuous » Fri, May 25, 2018, 6:17 PM UTC

bmelton wrote: post #414

eyeinthepyramid wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are benefits to washing the eggs, isn't there? I have read that in Europe as a consumer it's a lot more important to wash the eggs before using them.

You should definitely wash the eggs before you cook with them. As you mention, that is de rigueur for Europeans, as it is in America for things like lettuce and potatoes.

What ? Is this legitimate or are you being funny ?

I'm European and have never washed an egg before cooking it in my life. what is this ? I crack it open and cook it and am still here.

I do wash my tomatoes when I make a salad with raw tomatoes though. And that's mostly to get stuff off since I'd argue my vinegrette would kill all the bacteria.

And washing your potato ? I'm so confused. Don't we all cook potatoes in boiling hot water ?

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#459

Post by [deleted] » Fri, May 25, 2018, 6:18 PM UTC

jwalton wrote: post #311

riantogo wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. But let’s not pretend that it is cheap to do. All I’m saying that if you are cheering govt stepping into the equation then let’s have an honest discussion on who it hurts and who it benefits. Let’s take a stock of the impact to garage innovations. That is all.

Are you aware that it was illegal for you to collection email addresses from Canadians without their consent, due to [PIPEDA]( https://www.priv.gc.ca/en/privacy-topics/privacy-laws-in-can... ), long before the GDPR ever came into effect?

[deleted]

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#460

Post by AnthonyMouse » Fri, May 25, 2018, 6:18 PM UTC

bmelton wrote: post #341

tommorris wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking about getting in to the car market but all these pesky requirements that I sell a car with airbags and seatbelts and fuel efficiency compliance are just there to protect existing incumbents.

Snark aside, that doesn't dispute the thesis that regulations tend to favor incumbents. Some regulations are good. Some regulations are bad. Some regulations are smart. Some regulations are dumb. Reasonable people can disagree on the quality or intelligence of a given regulation, or its impact on a given industry, but that doesn't change that most regulations do tend to make products more expensive to manufacture and…

> Snark aside, that doesn't dispute the thesis that regulations tend to favor incumbents.

Not only that, even auto safety regulations do favor incumbents. There were far more new independent car companies created before the 1970s when the safety regulations were passed, and they were often created by small groups of people rather than huge established companies.

It's possible that the safety improvement is worth that cost, but that doesn't mean the cost isn't still there.

When we start talking about other industries where the result isn't literally a matter of life and death, it becomes much more likely that the cost outweighs the benefit. You're essentially talking about destroying competition -- the same competition that keeps companies from doing things you don't like.

If you want to pass regulations that destroy competition, those regulations had better prevent companies from doing more evil on net than competitive pressure does. Which is a pretty high bar.