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GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

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Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#411

Post by tommorris »

bmelton wrote: post #349
tommorris wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My comparison is simply to show the standard laissez faire talking point of "oh, regulation exists just to protect incumbent market players" as bullshit: regulations exist to protect consumers from negligence and misbehaviour on the part of the companies. The fact you think GDPR only applies to websites rather than the huge clusterfuck of personal data loss means you haven't understood the reason behind GDPR. Equifax…

> My comparison is simply to show the standard laissez faire talking point of "oh, regulation exists just to protect incumbent market players" as bullshit: regulations exist to protect consumers from negligence and misbehaviour on the part of the companies. You present a false dichotomy here. As much as the GP is wrong for boldly asserting the negative as fact, you are wrong for just as boldly asserting the opposite,…

> During the process of drafting the legislation, at least here in America, the existing players have a voice on the legislation's course, and the larger the existing player is, the louder their voice gets to be.

Sounds like you need campaign finance and lobbying regulations. ;-)

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#412

Post by microtonal »

lajhsdfkl wrote: post #359
alkonaut wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully what will happen is that it will be more expensive to advertise and publishers will earn more on dumber ads Obviously if ads are less targeted then they may be less effective so advertisers will make less on ads that cost more. This will hurt their bottom line, which in turn will make the products we buy more expensive. But that's exactly the end goal. I want to pay for things (information, products) with m…

>Obviously if ads are less targeted then they may be less effective so advertisers will make less on ads that cost more. This will hurt their bottom line, which in turn will make the products we buy more expensive. But that's exactly the end goal. I want to pay for things (information, products) with more money rather than with slightly less money and all my integrity. I'm sure you considered all the poor people acro…

I'm sure you considered all the poor people across the world that are subsidized by the ad driven model we use today.

A lot of them are poor, because we don't want to pay a decent amount for the products that we consume and instead rely on people working in sweatshops in third-world countries.

You don't solve poverty by giving them 'free' products that require them to give you all their private data. You solve poverty by giving people a decent wage, so that they make these decisions themselves.

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#413

Post by M2Ys4U »

LastZactionHero wrote: post #287
ithkuil wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently you need to appoint a Data Protection Officier and you cannot just be e.g. CEO, developer and DPO at the same time. https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-the-general-da... > Basically this means the DPO cannot hold a position within your organisation that leads him or her to determine the purposes and the means of the processing of personal data Are there exemptions for very small companies? If you…

Not an expert or anything, but this was linked on the page. "Does my organisation need a data protection officer (DPO)?" https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/does-my-organisation-ne... 1. Are you a public authority? (not sure what this is) 2. Do your organisation's core activities involve tracking and monitoring people's behaviour (for example on the internet, or on CCTV) on a large scale? 3. Do your organisation's c…

>1. Are you a public authority? (not sure what this is)

In the UK at least this is already a widely-known category of organisation and covers things like national and local government bodies, schools, hospitals, fire authorities, the police etc.

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#414

Post by bmelton »

eyeinthepyramid wrote: post #378
bmelton wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Snark aside, that doesn't dispute the thesis that regulations tend to favor incumbents. Some regulations are good. Some regulations are bad. Some regulations are smart. Some regulations are dumb. Reasonable people can disagree on the quality or intelligence of a given regulation, or its impact on a given industry, but that doesn't change that most regulations do tend to make products more expensive to manufacture and…

There are benefits to washing the eggs, isn't there? I have read that in Europe as a consumer it's a lot more important to wash the eggs before using them.

You should definitely wash the eggs before you cook with them. As you mention, that is de rigueur for Europeans, as it is in America for things like lettuce and potatoes.

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#415

Post by sbuk »

riantogo wrote: post #281
sbuk wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can collect email addresses still, so long as you have a legitimate reason to, you seek consent, you store them securely and remove them if consent is withdrawn. These are things that you should be doing anyway! Even if it's an open source side project.

Sure. But let’s not pretend that it is cheap to do. All I’m saying that if you are cheering govt stepping into the equation then let’s have an honest discussion on who it hurts and who it benefits. Let’s take a stock of the impact to garage innovations. That is all.

OK. Why is forcing people to consider the ethics of gathering data that have hither to proven to be lacking morally and ethically a bad thing?

In terms of "impact to garage innovations", there shouldn't be any if there is nothing nefarious about it. The cost of designing and engineering software ethically is minimal.

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#416

Post by repolfx »

elorant wrote: post #117
tzfld wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how can be a business sustainable in this way?

By hosting non-tracking ads. Like they used to be before Google started this whole profiling menace.

Did you use the internet back then? Do you remember what online ads were like before AdSense?

My god. They sucked so hard! AdSense was a revolution.

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#417

Post by kinsomo »

repolfx wrote: post #397
tommorris wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My comparison is simply to show the standard laissez faire talking point of "oh, regulation exists just to protect incumbent market players" as bullshit: regulations exist to protect consumers from negligence and misbehaviour on the part of the companies. The fact you think GDPR only applies to websites rather than the huge clusterfuck of personal data loss means you haven't understood the reason behind GDPR. Equifax…

In practice fining companies for getting hacked just boils down to a tax, as no company wants to be hacked, and the primary bottleneck to making software more secure is crap tools, crap platforms, poor training and inability to hire people who deeply understand security. Hacking is not a problem you can solve by passing a regulation that says "don't get hacked".

> In practice fining companies for getting hacked just boils down to a tax, as no company wants to be hacked

No, it boils down to an incentive. No company wants to get hacked, but a lot those same companies aren't willing to invest in security measures and training that could mitigate the risk.

> Hacking is not a problem you can solve by passing a regulation that says "don't get hacked".

I don't think anyone's proposing a regulation like that. However, it's not fair to put the costs of a data-theft squarely on the victims, when it was really the company that was responsible for securing the data.

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#418

Post by jacquesm »

adrianmsmith wrote: post #307
dmitriid wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is HN non-compliant? > They use Cloudflare Just the fact that you use some GDPR-compliant service doesn't mean that your product is GDPR-compliant. Because your product has to make sure that it stores, processes, removes, rotates etc. personally-identifiable data in a GDPR-compliant way. E.g. HN doesn't offer a way to request the data they have on me, or to delete my account. This is not GDPR-compliant.

It only "doesn't offer a way" if you write an email to HN and they refuse to do it, or don't answer. I haven't requested that myself, so I don't know what answer you'd get. But I think, unless there's evidence that someone's got such an answer from them, it would be wrong to assume they won't/can't do it. Deleting data etc. doesn't have to be automated i.e. with a button to do it. Writing to them and them doing it is…

Spot on. That's exactly how it is. It would be nice if the GDPR mandated automated procedures for all of the above that are no more complex than it is to sign up and post in the first place. But that's not quite how it works. There are such requirements in some of our laws with respect to signing up and cancelling paid services.

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#419

Post by jimmaswell »

eyeinthepyramid wrote: post #378
bmelton wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Snark aside, that doesn't dispute the thesis that regulations tend to favor incumbents. Some regulations are good. Some regulations are bad. Some regulations are smart. Some regulations are dumb. Reasonable people can disagree on the quality or intelligence of a given regulation, or its impact on a given industry, but that doesn't change that most regulations do tend to make products more expensive to manufacture and…

There are benefits to washing the eggs, isn't there? I have read that in Europe as a consumer it's a lot more important to wash the eggs before using them.

Should I also be washing fresh eggs from friends' chickens/ducks then?
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