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GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

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Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#371

Post by ryanwaggoner »

malka wrote: post #221
rdlecler1 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False. The marginal cost of an EU customer is no longer zero. Why should I put in a bunch of work for GDPR compliance if the cost to implement it exceeds the initial marginal cost of an EU user. There is still the rest of the world.

Good. if you do not value my privacy, I dont want you to do business here. another product will replace your own. And in all likeness an EU one, meaning less euros leaving the eurozone. I'm all for it.

if you do not value my privacy

False equivalence. You can do nothing untoward with user data and still not be compliant.

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#372

Post by king_phil »

huehehue wrote: post #237
rdlecler1 wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? Do you have an EU representative for your MVP? Did you hire a legal team to review your site and write up your terms of service? Send me your MVP and I’ll show you 10 thing a that are wrong with it and if you are complaint somehow then I doubt the product will be viable at all.

Really disappointed when I see these kinds of scare tactics. Compliance (or at least a good-faith attempt at compliance) is quite easy for small/new projects. I'm willing to bet that courts aren't out to make an example of every small infringement, and there's really no reason to discourage people from starting new projects.

Exactly. I have been in contact with the regulation authority a few times to make sure we're compliant and in all cases we found that they are super-helpful. And the GDPR is - while being CEO of an ecommerce comppany for 15 years now - the easiest and most well-written ecommerce law I have seen. Everything in it makes sense if you just read the freaking law and the recitals included in the law. Period.

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#373

Post by denzil_correa »

carreau wrote: post #370
kartan wrote: post #140

Business don't comply with regulations because it is easy, but because it's needed to do business. If a service didn't had a big user base in Europe, most countries don't speak English, it may be cheaper to remove the service. The New York Times or The New Yorker that even have physical copies available in Europe work as usual. I work in a gambling company and this is our day to day business. To enter a new market me…

Cutting access in Europe does not solve anything. I'm living in US but I am European. Thus I can visit any of the above listed website they are processing my data, and GDPR applies to me. So they are not complying and I could file a complaint.

Personally, this is the fun part of GDPR for me. The days of weasling out of regulations for private data with cute workarounds are coming to an end.

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#374

Post by ryanwaggoner »

packet_nerd wrote: post #306
ryanwaggoner wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pass whatever law you want, just don’t expect me to care. This law has nothing to do with me. If you don’t want to do business with me because I’m not compliant, don’t send me server requests, data, or money.

Cool dude. You don't plan to take care of my data I certainly don't want to be entrusting you with it.

False equivalence. I don't misuse any user data, never have or will. But I'm still not compliant, nor will I be for the foreseeable future, unless someone can tell me why I should care about a law from some other country that has no mechanism of enforcement?

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#375

Post by zorpner »

str33t_punk wrote: post #317
tommorris wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking about getting in to the car market but all these pesky requirements that I sell a car with airbags and seatbelts and fuel efficiency compliance are just there to protect existing incumbents.

Ones related to safety. The other ones related to a nebulous concept of data privacy

Right now, people in Saudi Arabia are being arrested for protesting in 1990: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/25/saudi-arabia-a...

In the US, people who gave their information to the government as part of a program to protect them from deportation are being deported.

Privacy and safety/security are not distinct concepts.

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#376

Post by twanvl »

carreau wrote: post #370
kartan wrote: post #140

Business don't comply with regulations because it is easy, but because it's needed to do business. If a service didn't had a big user base in Europe, most countries don't speak English, it may be cheaper to remove the service. The New York Times or The New Yorker that even have physical copies available in Europe work as usual. I work in a gambling company and this is our day to day business. To enter a new market me…

Cutting access in Europe does not solve anything. I'm living in US but I am European. Thus I can visit any of the above listed website they are processing my data, and GDPR applies to me. So they are not complying and I could file a complaint.

> Thus I can visit any of the above listed website they are processing my data, and GDPR applies to me.

"Provided your company doesn't specifically target its services at individuals in the EU, it is not subject to the rules of the GDPR." (https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-topic/data-protection/refo...)

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#377

Post by roel_v »

Kerrick wrote: post #360
roel_v wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such TOS would most likely be 'unduely onerous' or whatever the local term for this concept is in other EU jurisdictions. I've said this many times here already, but law is not a closed rule based decision tree. Intent matters, and laws are written in a way that they can be interpreted so that their meaning can be adapted to new circumstances or different times. Now, I'm not going to argue about whether that's how it…

> Intent matters So shouldn't the website's intent to block you from accessing it matter?

That point was part of a general observation. When something 'matters', that doesn't mean there cam be other factors. In thi specific case I see no reason why the territorial scope would not extend to processors outside the EU when they monitor user behavior. Taking some limited technical measures to prevent access doesn't absolve them from the law to apply.

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#378

Post by eyeinthepyramid »

bmelton wrote: post #341
tommorris wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking about getting in to the car market but all these pesky requirements that I sell a car with airbags and seatbelts and fuel efficiency compliance are just there to protect existing incumbents.

Snark aside, that doesn't dispute the thesis that regulations tend to favor incumbents. Some regulations are good. Some regulations are bad. Some regulations are smart. Some regulations are dumb. Reasonable people can disagree on the quality or intelligence of a given regulation, or its impact on a given industry, but that doesn't change that most regulations do tend to make products more expensive to manufacture and…

There are benefits to washing the eggs, isn't there? I have read that in Europe as a consumer it's a lot more important to wash the eggs before using them.

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#379

Post by Zekio »

flohofwoe wrote: post #48

Alternatively there's this: https://eu.usatoday.com/ No ads, no tracking, no cookies, not even Javascript. Just plain HTML+CSS and JPEG images. The whole front page is around 650 KByte, and by far most of this is in the image files. As a result the page looks very clean and loads very fast. This is what all news web sites should look like, not just for EU readers (although I fear that this is just a temporary solutio…

pretty stripped down site https://i.imgur.com/7T5h3Vr.jpg barely any html as well

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#380

Post by freeflight »

ams6110 wrote: post #364

Facebook, Google, Instagram and WhatsApp are accused of forcing users to consent to targeted advertising to use the services. Privacy group noyb.eu, led by activist Max Schrems, said people were not being given a "free choice". I mean, that just isn't a valid complaint IMO. You have a choice -- you can not use Facebook, or not use Google, or not use Instagram, or not use WhatsApp. If you're using a "free" service tha…

It is a very valid complaint and becomes even more valid as Facebook is scrutinized even further.

Zuckerberg's EU hearing was a rather good indicator of where this is heading when MEP's specifically singled out:

- Facebook's business practices in general, the MEP's do not believe that what Facebook is doing can be done in the same way while respecting users privacy. Thus they kept asking how Facebook is planning to monetize it's service in the future while respecting their user's data.

- Having Facebook admit to its monopoly position in the EU by asking Zuckerberg for any Facebook competition he knows of, in the EU.

There's also this whole issue with Facebook simply slurping up WhatsApp, and all its user's data, even tho WhatsApp users never consented to any of that. I made a point of never giving Facebook my mobile number, a point that's made completely irrelevant when Facebook just throws money around to get any data they want complete with some manufactured opt-out consent.

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