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GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

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Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#421

Post by repolfx »

oaiey wrote: post #355
lajhsdfkl wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's called Data Protection Officer and you only need to appoint one if processing personal data is your core business, which is reasonable. Not commenting on the validity of this statement but it's interesting how I can tell from which continent you are from just by you saying that the regulation forcing a business to hire DPO is reasonable.

I am writing replies on GDPR topics the other way around ("I see you are from the US"). GDPR is a regulation for a topic which is important in the European societies. Not so much in the US (free capitalism) or China (social score).

It really annoys me how many self-styled "Europeans" on HN feel free to speak for an entire continent.

Firstly, the EU is not the same thing as Europe. Yes EU officials and supporters love to use the word "Europe" when they mean EU - I find it nasty and manipulative.

Secondly, I'm from an EU country, now live in Europe but not in the EU, and I think GDPR is absurd. A great example of the general malaise and decline of the continent. As I have pointed out elsewhere, GDPR is not even remotely an important topic to people in the EU. Actual opinion polls run by the EU Commission have shown for years that the top concerns of the citizenry are immigration, terrorism and the economy, in that order.

Data protection simply doesn't feature in it at all. It's a dog and pony show put on by the EU to distract people from its failings.

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#422

Post by mrtksn »

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #395
mrtksn wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See, that's not what GDPR does. Maybe In your alternative-facts GDPR, your case may have a point. I don't see why I should argue over a hypothetical GDPR, let's focus on the reality. About the burger thing, we do not need to assume things here, we can examine the reality and the reality is that McDonald's complies with the EU regulations when doing business in the EU, local American burger shops that don't do busines…

OK, so let's say that hypothetically I run a small business in the US. I just sell access to software (that lives on my server in the US) instead of burgers. An EU visitor comes to my server in my country and buys something. Why should I care about their laws any more than the burger shop owner should?

Is your argument that someone else in the business should care or is your argument that EU visitors should not have rights to their data because it is inconvenient to you? Depending on your arrangement, if you are a reseller for example, you probably are not responsible for what that software does with your customer's data.

Also, burger shops that do business in EU(usually chains, McDonald's and Burger King) do care about the EU food regulations, why shouldn't they and why shouldn't you? You are aware that McDonald's isn't steamrolling in the EU, right? They do follow the EU food regulations. And no, you don't have to be a big company to sell burgers in the EU, we have plenty of local independent burger shops all over the continent.

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#423

Post by craigsmansion »

ams6110 wrote: post #364

Facebook, Google, Instagram and WhatsApp are accused of forcing users to consent to targeted advertising to use the services. Privacy group noyb.eu, led by activist Max Schrems, said people were not being given a "free choice". I mean, that just isn't a valid complaint IMO. You have a choice -- you can not use Facebook, or not use Google, or not use Instagram, or not use WhatsApp. If you're using a "free" service tha…

No, Facebook, Google, Instagram, and Whatsapp have a choice, on whether they want to continue operating in the European market.

> why do you think you have a right to use it without consenting to the ads?

Consenting to targetted ads. That's a big difference. All operators can show ads like they always have, but they can't specifically tailor them to the individual, using accumulated data, without their consent.

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#424

Post by bmelton »

jimmaswell wrote: post #419
eyeinthepyramid wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are benefits to washing the eggs, isn't there? I have read that in Europe as a consumer it's a lot more important to wash the eggs before using them.

Should I also be washing fresh eggs from friends' chickens/ducks then?

Yes. I have chickens (hence the anecdote above), and if you're getting eggs from friends, you should definitely wash them. I've personally just made it a habit to to wash all eggs in warm water, regardless of whether they're store-bought or fresh.

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#425

Post by M2Ys4U »

lajhsdfkl wrote: post #325
adventured wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no scenario where the 'open' Internet doesn't rip apart. Globally there will be dozens of GDPR type regulations, and that's just covering privacy. There will be a lot more for economic rules, cultural rules (eg governing speech), etc. Want to operate a service in 100+ countries? You'll have to comply with thousands of rules. Only giant companies will be able to do it. It's already extremely difficult to do. I…

I really think the EU guaranteed US tech dominance with this law. How many months of work did the EU just add to getting out an MVP? How are EU startups even going to do AB testing to improve their product without collecting user data?

I suggest you actually read the GDPR (for legislation it's actually quite readable) before spouting off nonsense like this.

>How many months of work did the EU just add to getting out an MVP?

None.

>How are EU startups even going to do AB testing to improve their product without collecting user data?

The same way they always have.

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#426

Post by microtonal »

lajhsdfkl wrote: post #367
oaiey wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am writing replies on GDPR topics the other way around ("I see you are from the US"). GDPR is a regulation for a topic which is important in the European societies. Not so much in the US (free capitalism) or China (social score).

I mean, fine. I'm not an EU citizen, I think GDPR is a pain in ass but ultimately is not my decision no matter how much I judge you all. But it does frustrate me that you all believe that GDPR will somehow be good for you. I've seen it said multiple times that when a massive American media company decides to pull out of the EU that a European alternative will emerge that is GDPR compliant and replace it. Do you actua…

I think GDPR is a pain in ass but ultimately is not my decision no matter how much I judge you all.

Why judge at all? Europe has an extremely troubled history when it comes to abuse of private data - WW2, Franco, the Stasi, infiltration of moderate left-wing groups when the RAF was active, communism in East Europe. So, can you blame us for being protective of our privacy?

But it does frustrate me that you all believe that GDPR will somehow be good for you.

Why not? Many countries already had strong privacy protections, but non-EU companies could retract itself in various ways. So, it hasn't been a level playing field for a long time, since EU companies had to provide these protections. So, it is good for EU companies. It is exceptionally good for European citizens - they have a choice in how their data is used. US companies will eventually come around, Europe is a large and wealthy market. And complying with regulations is a walk in the park compared to e.g. China, Russia, or India.

The only way I can see it work out is if GDPR is selectively enforced against American business which it seems obvious to me that will be the case.

Please let this myth die for once and for all. The largest fines handed out by the EC affect European companies:

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/27/the-largest-fines-dished-out...

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#427

Post by a_imho »

ams6110 wrote: post #364

Facebook, Google, Instagram and WhatsApp are accused of forcing users to consent to targeted advertising to use the services. Privacy group noyb.eu, led by activist Max Schrems, said people were not being given a "free choice". I mean, that just isn't a valid complaint IMO. You have a choice -- you can not use Facebook, or not use Google, or not use Instagram, or not use WhatsApp. If you're using a "free" service tha…

Completely backwards, violators have a choice, either play by the EU rules or move their business elsewhere.

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#428

Post by M2Ys4U »

kodablah wrote: post #218
oblio wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Honestly, I don't. I don't want this precedent of government overreach to stand. Why is it overreach? It's literally why we invented government! I, the little guy, couldn't find giants like Facebook or Google. That's why I asked my democratically elected government to work on the problem.

To me it's overreach because smaller measures could have been a better first step, this won't help the problem much, and it hurts the non-targets. I understand it's why you asked your government to work on the problem. We just need to stop pretending that any way they work on the problem is a good one.

Smaller measures were taken. The Data Protection Directive was adopted in 1995 and hasn't worked at preventing EU citizens' human rights from being abused.

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#429

Post by repolfx »

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #389
strictnein wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the EU does not lord over the US, their laws do not rule the US. This is legally how GDPR actually works The number of people who have lost sight of this is unbelievable. It actually seems especially rampant on HN, which is kind of surprising, to be honest.

I think it's because of a deep cultural divide. EU users who are big fans of the GDPR genuinely admire the law, both its intent and implementation, and also have a very positive view of the government. They believe that regulators will try to help companies comply, and will only fine as a last resort. Whereas in the US, we tend to be fairly skeptical of government. And as a consequence, since EU users think this law…

Bear in mind GDPR seems to have become some sort of totemic issue for the small minority of people in Europe who are true-blue died in the wool ideological supporters of the EU project. They are flooding GDPR discussions with these sorts of views. A good give away is they say "speaking as a European" or use the term "EU citizen" (there is no such thing, the EU as an institution does not have citizens or issue passports, it's only member states that do that).

But Europe is full of people who aren't so in thrall to the EU as an idea, as evidenced by one of its most important countries voting to leave despite the population being threatened with massive chaos and severing of all cooperation and trade relationships with their neighbours should they choose to do so. Bad regulation was one of the most common talking points during the Brexit campaigns and GDPR is a good example of why.

These sort of people aren't posting so much on HN but they are quite common.

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#430

Post by fixermark »

tommorris wrote: post #230
rdlecler1 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regulations tend to favor incumbents, decreasing competition, and thereby increase monopoly and creating central hubs of systemic risk. There is no free lunch with one-size-fits-all rule making. Unfortunately regulators think there is.

I was thinking about getting in to the car market but all these pesky requirements that I sell a car with airbags and seatbelts and fuel efficiency compliance are just there to protect existing incumbents.

You can make fun of it, but there's a reason that Silicon Valley venture capital goes to software engineering (where regulations have generally been lower) while significant disruption in the automotive space is coming from incumbents and one company founded by a guy with a net worth of $18 billion.
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