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GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

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Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#151

Post by Double_a_92 »

danbruc wrote: post #12
jannes wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as there is no business relationship to any EU entity they would not be "doing business in the EU", would they? I doubt making a website available on the global internet would be seen as "doing business in the EU".

Doing business in the EU is only one path that causes the GDPR apply to you, processing personal data of people located within the EU, not necessarily EU citizens, is another one and probably the one relevant here. Article 3(2): This Regulation applies to the processing of personal data of data subjects who are in the Union by a controller or processor not established in the Union, where the processing activities are…

But what's the worst that could happen? Your site would get dns blocked in the EU?

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#152

Post by kodablah »

mrtksn wrote: post #135
kodablah wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that it isn't even an option to recognize a bad law and repeal it, even if it had good intentions, speaks volumes.

As an EU citizen, I don't think the law is bad but you are free to be upset about it, of course. Please respect our laws and privacy or don't do business with us. We will be very sorry if your product is irreplaceable or we will use a competing product that complies with GDPR.

I didn't say the law was bad, I was saying if it turns out to be, repealing it should be an option. Too often there is no going back from these things because it's not considered an option. Instead only options like revolt, go elsewhere or use a VPN are presented.

Obviously the last incarnation of the GDPR didn't work for multiple reasons, the most oft-cited one being non-enforcement. Was the option to repeal and take other approaches to the problem considered? Nope...double down. Since people agree with the intent, the approach often appears above reproach.

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#153

Post by oblio »

kodablah wrote: post #118
_mlxl wrote: post #9

Blocking access at geographic level across pretty clear signal they don't care about users/readers in those regions (I think it's hard to argue otherwise, the law has been coming for 2 years). Obviously they cater to people interested in local news in those regions. However, I hope they will rectify and allow access again for EU users at some point soon. It seems to go against the idea of a borderless internet, and I…

> However, I hope they will rectify and allow access again for EU users at some point soon. Honestly, I don't. I don't want this precedent of government overreach to stand. I wish more international companies would stop doing business with US citizens for the same reasons. > It seems to go against the idea of a borderless internet, and I blame the companies for that, not the EU. You don't blame border-based rules for…

> Honestly, I don't. I don't want this precedent of government overreach to stand.

Why is it overreach?

It's literally why we invented government! I, the little guy, couldn't find giants like Facebook or Google. That's why I asked my democratically elected government to work on the problem.

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#155

Post by alkonaut »

tzfld wrote: post #53
flohofwoe wrote: post #48

Alternatively there's this: https://eu.usatoday.com/ No ads, no tracking, no cookies, not even Javascript. Just plain HTML+CSS and JPEG images. The whole front page is around 650 KByte, and by far most of this is in the image files. As a result the page looks very clean and loads very fast. This is what all news web sites should look like, not just for EU readers (although I fear that this is just a temporary solutio…

And how can be a business sustainable in this way?

Hopefully what will happen is that it will be more expensive to advertise and publishers will earn more on dumber ads

Obviously if ads are less targeted then they may be less effective so advertisers will make less on ads that cost more. This will hurt their bottom line, which in turn will make the products we buy more expensive. But that's exactly the end goal. I want to pay for things (information, products) with more money rather than with slightly less money and all my integrity.

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#156

Post by ryanwaggoner »

khamoud wrote: post #143
tracker1 wrote: post #116

Honest hypothetical question... my website is in the US, my servers in the US, why would I care about the GDPR?

The US and EU have a good relationship. The EU can (probably will) use international law to hold you accountable and the US is likely to comply. EDIT: you is the hypothetical you. If the EU targets you then they will use international law to do so.

Ha. You’re insane if you think that the US Congress is going to start letting 28 agencies in the EU start fining small businesses that have no EU presence whatsoever. The political ads write themselves.

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#158

Post by dominotw »

awat wrote: post #128

On one hand I can understand why some orgs are having trouble with GDPR. On the other hand it’s pretty clear the actions of more than a few have gotten GDPR to where it is. My takeaway at the moment is something along the lines of this is why we can’t have nice things.

I attribute it to European jealously over american tech success. Hi tech success that flies in the face of their supposed social, cultural and moral superiority.

User tracking is not really why we don't have nice things, look at the success of moviepass even after they publicly admitted what they were tracking. People want part of the spoils which is exactly the purpose of GDPR.

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#159

Post by adventured »

Yabood wrote: post #134

There are so many wrong things with this approach. First, what do you do when you have existing users, delete them? Second, I believe the law protects EU citizens regardless of where they are. If you're an EU citizen and register for a service somewhere in the US using VPN or while physically being outside the EU, that service/company will still need to comply. The safest approach is to comply. We're a tiny startup,…

> Second, I believe the law protects EU citizens regardless of where they are.

That's incorrect. That is the attempted naive reach of the EU in action. The correct formulation is: the EU would like for GDPR to apply to all EU citizen data globally.

US sites/services with no business reach into the EU, do not need to comply with EU privacy laws. 99% of businesses around the world (most small businesses), those outside of the EU, will entirely disregard GDPR - because they have no business dealings with the EU.

The EU has no jurisdiction over the US economy or its laws. That will remain the case. The EU also doesn't control China, or India, or Japan, or Brazil, or South Africa.

A simple example for illustration: I can establish a new US service that is ad based (with eg 100% of revenue being derived from the US market), I can keep all of my infrastructure & business operations outside of the EU, I can take on EU users at will, and I can do anything I want to - in compliance with US law - with their information without concern for GDPR: because the EU does not lord over the US, their laws do not rule the US. This is legally how GDPR actually works, despite the amusing propaganda campaign to pretend GDPR requires global compliance.

Re: GDPR: US news sites unavailable to EU users over data protection rules

#160

Post by trothamel »

ashelmire wrote: post #86
akie wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they have readers that are physically in the EU, then those readers would be covered by the GDPR.

Foreign laws are not enforceable in the US unless we a) have a treaty saying so and b) have an analogous law here. I see a lot of Europeans and tech bros that don’t seem to get this. They can make a law saying people or corporations must kiss the rings of every EU citizen no matter where they are or face fines... likewise not enforceable here, and hopefully that example makes that clear to you.

Not sure why this is getting downvoted, since it's true. As a thought experiment, why should this have any more relevance to a company that's in the US than the Thai law that prevents criticism of their king.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A8se_majest%C3%A9_in_Thai...

I suspect what we'll see soon is a law protecting US companies from EU overreach, comparable to the SPEECH ACT.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPEECH_Act

It would not surprise me if some US companies are holding back, because they expect similar protections from foreign law to be passed here.

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