Germany Acts to Tame Facebook, Learning from Its Own History of Hate • Hacker News Board

Re: Germany Acts to Tame Facebook, Learning from Its Own History of Hate

#141

Post by KozmoNau7 » Sun, May 20, 2018, 9:55 PM UTC

seertaak wrote: post #115

eksemplar wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone spray painted a swastika on your house, how would you react? That’s basically what people are doing to the Facebook platform, and Facebook is fine with it. Which is weird, because they are already censoring you considering there is a long range of things you can’t share in their platform, such as pictures of you breastfeeding your baby. I’m not sure why breastfeeding is considered worse than hate speech at…

> If someone spray painted a swastika on your house, how would you react? Where I live (Görlitzer Park), those kinds of signs are literally everywhere -- only they're the leftwing equivalent, calling for bloody revolution, for the rich to be booted from their homes, racists and xenophobes to be punched, etc. I'm actually pretty relaxed about it -- a bunch of 20 year olds who get their kicks spray painting while drink…

There's a big difference between kicking downwards (ala fascism), and kicking upwards (ala socialism).

Re: Germany Acts to Tame Facebook, Learning from Its Own History of Hate

#142

Post by [deleted] » Sun, May 20, 2018, 10:04 PM UTC

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #93

jk2323 wrote: post #59

This bullshit is not a "hate crime law", it is a law to silence opponents of the ruling junta. Worse, it enables blocking of US citizens (like me), that don't live in Germany, through dubious, semi-private entities, based in Germany. Both things are a scandal. And why does have Facebook problems in China? Why not grant the Chinese government the same rights as the German government?

How so? They are simply making people liable for breaking laws that already existed . How are they blocking you? How are they cementing their power by punishing people for inciting to violence against people with specific religious/political viewpoints or sexual orientations etc.?

[deleted]

Re: Germany Acts to Tame Facebook, Learning from Its Own History of Hate

#143

Post by jk2323 » Sun, May 20, 2018, 10:07 PM UTC

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #130

naturalgradient wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be completely uninformed regarding the actual implementation of the law. Any criticism of anything can and will be deleted under the scope of the law. Want to criticise any policy? Hatespeech. Criticise religion? Hatespeech. It would of course never hold up in court, but that doesn't matter, for social media platforms deleting anything that could be construed as hate by anyone who feels offended is the pa…

I'm sorry, but you're spouting absolute nonsense. I have discussed this topic many times with my German girlfriend and her family in Germany (we live in Denmark), and you are so completely off on your "predictions", it's not even funny. German law has a very specific definition of what material is targeted, and "hate speech" is an inadequate translation. Only public speech that incites violence against religious, pol…

"I have discussed this topic many times with my German girlfriend and her family in Germany (we live in Denmark), and you are so completely off on your "predictions", it's not even funny."

Honest advice: Get another girl friend. No kidding!

Re: Germany Acts to Tame Facebook, Learning from Its Own History of Hate

#144

Post by KozmoNau7 » Sun, May 20, 2018, 10:09 PM UTC

js8 wrote: post #105

They are NOT learning from their history. In fact (to quote from https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/copenhagen-speech-v... ): "I found that, contrary to what most people think, Weimar Germany did have hate-speech laws, and they were applied quite frequently. The assertion that Nazi propaganda played a significant role in mobilizing anti-Jewish sentiment is, of course, irrefutable. But to claim that the Holocaus…

The lesson to be learned is that they did not strike down the fascists hard enough, while they still could.

Fascism must be met at all time with hard, Swift and decisive opposition, violent if necessary. There must be no tolerance for ideologies built on intolerance.

Re: Germany Acts to Tame Facebook, Learning from Its Own History of Hate

#145

Post by jk2323 » Sun, May 20, 2018, 10:12 PM UTC

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #93

jk2323 wrote: post #59

This bullshit is not a "hate crime law", it is a law to silence opponents of the ruling junta. Worse, it enables blocking of US citizens (like me), that don't live in Germany, through dubious, semi-private entities, based in Germany. Both things are a scandal. And why does have Facebook problems in China? Why not grant the Chinese government the same rights as the German government?

How so? They are simply making people liable for breaking laws that already existed . How are they blocking you? How are they cementing their power by punishing people for inciting to violence against people with specific religious/political viewpoints or sexual orientations etc.?

[flagged]

Re: Germany Acts to Tame Facebook, Learning from Its Own History of Hate

#146

Post by jk2323 » Sun, May 20, 2018, 10:30 PM UTC

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #135

naturalgradient wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not predicting anything, this is how it has been implemented. You are aware this law is already in effect and thousands have been deleted/banned? But this debate is pointless because you clearly neither speak German, understand German law, nor are interested in revising your opinion that this is anything other than a fight of the righteous against the bad. The law is likely unconstitutional, widely overreaching,…

Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences. I am a firm supporter of free speech. I am also a firm believer in consequences when that speech leads to violence and persecution.

Look. Posting on facebook "lets lynch some {ni..ers, Jews, Arabs, minority of your choice} also gets you into trouble with the law in the states. I doubt that anyone claims this is free speech.

But questioning the Open borders situation in Europe Germany in public (speak facebook) that is BLUNTLY violating German law and Dublin III regulation is what gets you blocked. It is a left wing junta in the final stages that is ruling Germany at the moment. And making law by chancellor decree has been out of fashion in Germany for over 70 years. Not a good idea to bring it back!

Re: Germany Acts to Tame Facebook, Learning from Its Own History of Hate

#147

Post by s_m_t » Sun, May 20, 2018, 11:11 PM UTC

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #141

seertaak wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If someone spray painted a swastika on your house, how would you react? Where I live (Görlitzer Park), those kinds of signs are literally everywhere -- only they're the leftwing equivalent, calling for bloody revolution, for the rich to be booted from their homes, racists and xenophobes to be punched, etc. I'm actually pretty relaxed about it -- a bunch of 20 year olds who get their kicks spray painting while drink…

There's a big difference between kicking downwards (ala fascism), and kicking upwards (ala socialism).

"kicking" is an interesting euphemism. Even if it were true that fascism "kicked" downwards and socialism "kicked" upwards, what the egregious socialist and fascist governments of the 20th century did wasn't just kicking. It was often quite literally rape, torture, murder, enslavement, and genocide.

Re: Germany Acts to Tame Facebook, Learning from Its Own History of Hate

#148

Post by doesnt_know » Sun, May 20, 2018, 11:28 PM UTC

pitaj wrote: post #139

doesnt_know wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hate speech laws aren't completely uncommon, so individual users would be liable for creating it. In NZ law, it's part of our Human Rights Act: http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1993/0082/latest/D... "It shall be unlawful for any person to publish or distribute written matter which is threatening, abusive, or insulting, or to broadcast by means of radio or television or other electronic communication words wh…

Wow that's terribly vague. Insulting people publicly is illegal?

It's in the "Other forms of discrimination" => "Racial disharmony" section, so it's applied in the context of racism (there are other sections that dictate other acts such as sexual harassment etc). There is also another section on "131 - Inciting racial disharmony"

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1993/0082/latest/D...

which references the previously mentioned section. But also followed up by

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1993/0082/latest/D...

"No prosecution for an offence against section 131 shall be instituted without the consent of the Attorney-General."

Re: Germany Acts to Tame Facebook, Learning from Its Own History of Hate

#149

Post by joering2 » Mon, May 21, 2018, 2:23 AM UTC

joering2 wrote: post #37

dmoy wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depending on the type of hate speech in Germany, you can get thrown in prison for up to 5 years.

Thats true. One of my ex classmates went first time abroad, and upon leaving zoll (german border) he told officer “heil hitler” out of pure excitement and probably too many historical movies watched (is there anything else to watch that is german made?). No amount of explanations was sufficient. He got 3 months behind bars and 10 years ban to visit germany. That was in 2007. I assume now its even worse.

Blows my mind people will downvote just because someone happen to say a relevant story.

Re: Germany Acts to Tame Facebook, Learning from Its Own History of Hate

#150

Post by virmundi » Mon, May 21, 2018, 3:00 AM UTC

pimmen wrote: post #121

virmundi wrote: post #46

I wonder, out loud to all you HN lawyers, if not officially supporting an EU country gets you out of EU law. If a site offers no official language support, does it have to follow Germany's law simply because a German saw it?

They have to follow German law because they have German users, German customers (German companies buying ads), use German infrastructure, German marketing and German offices housing German employees. If they would like to turn their back to an 80 million people market, sure. However, if this becomes the EU standard, it jumps up to a market of almost 500 million people. Hard to turn that down.

If they have users, but transact everything in Dollars and only host out of the US, does Germany have claim to dictate terms? For example if Germans come to America and buy things, the German government has little control to exert power.