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Getting 1Password 7 ready for the Mac App Store

blog.agilebits.com

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Re: Getting 1Password 7 ready for the Mac App Store

#221

Post by SirensOfTitan »

Barrin92 wrote: post #204
SirensOfTitan wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t really get this perspective. You can continue using the version of 1Password that you bought without issue. The expectation that your purchase years ago should entitle you to updates forever is pretty ridiculous.

when utility or productivity tools are offered at a fairly steep price point as 1password was people usually have a reasonable expectation to receive long-term upgrades. It's not ridiculous at all because it generally is the norm.

I spent around 45-50 dollars in 2013 for the Windows+Mac Bundle and iOS apps. 1Password 7 is the first paid in my experience using the software, which is vital to me every day.

Roughly 10 dollars a year for a critical utility software isn't "fairly steep," and I also fail to understand how so many years of free updates imply any type of "reasonable" expectation of long term updates.

Re: Getting 1Password 7 ready for the Mac App Store

#222

Post by mlindner »

archagon wrote: post #182
cdumler wrote: post #123

So, I'll join the chorus here by saying that I've picked up the subscription fee. I've been using their software daily for over three years. During that time, they have consistently improved their product and have been open about issues (as far as I am concerned). I was a little irked when I saw the subscription model. I was like, "hey, I paid for this." So, I looked up how much I paid in licenses by looking them up.…

As time goes on, I've gotten less and less comfortable using proprietary software for critical tasks. If 1Password were open source, I'd actually be pretty happy to subscribe. But as it stands, I have no faith that the product won't change out from under me in the future, whether due to a pivot, an acquisition, or some other reason. The incentives align in favor of the business, not the customer. IMHO, subscriptions…

There are open source 3d party applications on Linux that I've used to access 1Password password archives. The code is closed source but everything they're using to encrypt the passwords are open standards. You can build your own 3rd party open source platform to access them.

Re: Getting 1Password 7 ready for the Mac App Store

#223

Post by wyclif »

gergles wrote: post #171
robteix wrote: post #84

I have a family subscription of 1PW. I can easily share some password with my wife and our daughter is getting used to using a password manager before she's 10. I totally empathize with those who refuse to use cloud/subscription services as, let's face it, there are a lot of bad actors doing crappy things with our data. But for me 1Password seems like a small, honest company providing great quality service and softwa…

> But for me 1Password seems like a small, honest company providing great quality service and software. Yes, I imagine because they have carefully crafted that image through blog posts and impression management. They have over 70 employees to write a password manager. 70!

But that's a bit specious. There are not 70 software developers at AgileBits engaged in writing the code for the product. A business like AgileBits requires a lot more overhead than just software engineering.

Re: Getting 1Password 7 ready for the Mac App Store

#224

Post by seandougall »

chrischen wrote: post #218
jonknee wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For customers there are 0 benefits to a subscription model. For companies of course there are many. OP described in detail the benefit for customers--constantly updated software. Critical for something as security conscience as a password manager.

People updated software before they started using subscription models. Paying for software meant they had to make more compelling updates.

True in the traditional model. But the Mac App Store model doesn’t have paid upgrades, which meant there was no incentive for them to keep updating. With a subscription system, there’s (theoretically at least) the possibility that customers would jump ship if they feel the developers aren’t pulling their weight.

Re: Getting 1Password 7 ready for the Mac App Store

#225

Post by bdcravens »

pvg wrote: post #126
bdcravens wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A little of both. I did a check and I literally couldn't find it. If it's that well hidden (I have a few licenses from prior versions, so I'm not a stranger to the site) isn't that effectively not having the option?

My comment was a response to '1Password is making it so you can never buy a standalone version again'. This isn't true. It is true that they try to steer people into a subscription. But if they wanted to kill the standalone version, they would have. You can download the 1Password 7 beta right now and pay for it once.

I think you'd agree however that having this option nowhere to be found on the "Pricing" page would result in most concluding the option didn't exist.

Re: Getting 1Password 7 ready for the Mac App Store

#226

Post by nsgi »

chrischen wrote: post #218
jonknee wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For customers there are 0 benefits to a subscription model. For companies of course there are many. OP described in detail the benefit for customers--constantly updated software. Critical for something as security conscience as a password manager.

People updated software before they started using subscription models. Paying for software meant they had to make more compelling updates.

For something like a password manager, the most compelling updates are security fixes, but there are several problems with charging for these:

- It's unreasonable to expect people to pay the full price for minor security fixes that still need to go out

- Because security upgrades are invisible to the user, it may be harder for the customer to see their value v. new features

- The timeline of when security updates need to go out is less predictable than that of feature upgrades, resulting in unpredictable revenue and expenditure for both the vendor and the customer and the customer may not have the budget to pay for an unexpected security fix

- Customers often want to take time to consider whether it is worth paying for upgrades, whereas security fixes should be applied as soon as possible

- The vendor must invest a lot of resources in testing the security of their software even when no security upgrades are warranted

Re: Getting 1Password 7 ready for the Mac App Store

#227

Post by nodamage »

Barrin92 wrote: post #204
SirensOfTitan wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t really get this perspective. You can continue using the version of 1Password that you bought without issue. The expectation that your purchase years ago should entitle you to updates forever is pretty ridiculous.

when utility or productivity tools are offered at a fairly steep price point as 1password was people usually have a reasonable expectation to receive long-term upgrades. It's not ridiculous at all because it generally is the norm.

Someone who purchased 1Password 3 when it was first released on the Mac App Store in 2012 has already received six years of free updates to versions 4, 5, and 6.

As far as I'm concerned, AgileBits has gone well above and beyond what is reasonably expected in terms of providing long-term upgrades to existing users. For those people to now turn around and complain that they aren't also getting version 7 for free... frankly comes across as entitled and ridiculous.

Re: Getting 1Password 7 ready for the Mac App Store

#228

Post by gkoberger »

chrischen wrote: post #217
cdumler wrote: post #123

So, I'll join the chorus here by saying that I've picked up the subscription fee. I've been using their software daily for over three years. During that time, they have consistently improved their product and have been open about issues (as far as I am concerned). I was a little irked when I saw the subscription model. I was like, "hey, I paid for this." So, I looked up how much I paid in licenses by looking them up.…

It sounds like you feel like you underpaid. Then the solution is for them to charge more or charge for more of their products, not a subscription. A subscription basically forces you into paying for upgrades. The only thing a subscription model is good for is it wrestes power from the consumer. With the traditional model if they decide to stop updating the app, you wouldn’t buy the next version, and that would be you…

Here's a counterpoint:

If someone pays $40 for, say, 1Password 5, they have no incentive to upgrade. It works well enough, and there's no reason to pay again. So, 1Password is stuck supporting a legacy product (and servers / APIs for it), the user is frustrated by an old version of the software, and the company gets no money so they're at risk of folding (which would hurt both the customer and 1Password).

I agree that subscriptions can get annoying. However, if it ultimately is about the same price, it ends up working out much better for both sides. And hey, they can always stop their subscription and go somewhere else if things get bad. They don't lose their buying power completely.

Re: Getting 1Password 7 ready for the Mac App Store

#229

Post by y_molodtsov »

hannibalhorn wrote: post #17
spv wrote: post #5

I have been using Bitwarden for some time now. It’s an open source password manager. There are apps for all major platforms and extensions to all major browsers. Checkout https://bitwarden.com/

Interesting in that you can host your own instance of their cloud server, but I really prefer something that uses standard cloud storage mechanisms (Dropbox, iCloud, etc.) for sync and works on top of that. Like others here, I'll probably be reevaluating my choice when it feels like it's time to upgrade. For me, some of the open source solutions are perfect as far as the underlying storage format and sync technology,…

1password is also supported by many mobile apps (on iOS at least).

Re: Getting 1Password 7 ready for the Mac App Store

#230

Post by y_molodtsov »

crankylinuxuser wrote: post #205
snuxoll wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> or remote encrypted storage That’s a key component of a 1Password subscription, they host your vaults and handle annoying details like access control, etc.

If remote services were an add-on , and nonpayment left your clients still able to use the program, I see no issue. That's not what happens. You're locked out of all your stuff on nonpayment for the "subscription". This trend of subscription-ifying is horrifying. It's turning users into digital sharecroppers, for a guaranteed line of money. And 'easy-to-import, hard-to-export' is the modus operandi for these companie…

At first, they're not a monopoly, people who worry about that could easily use other open-source and probably less convenient solution. Secondly, after the subscription ends the apps simply go into read-only mode. You still have access and can export all of your passwords.

We may argue about it but the most expensive solutions are still the most consumer-friendly.

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