Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

411–420 of 437 posts

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#411

Post by maxk42 »

chillacy wrote: post #405
maxk42 wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> would college be "worth it" if it were free? I suspect the answer is "no" more frequently than you may expect. The opportunity cost is four years of your life, four fewer years of full-time work experience, and the income that comes with that work experience. When I was in high school all these recruiters came from various colleges to try and get us to sign up for their schools. I saw what almost none of my peers s…

Out of curiosity, what kind of job were you able to land without a college degree? More and more jobs require a degree, even those that don't seem to need it, just because more and more people are going to college. Though if you're the type of person who's driven enough to do that cold calling, I'm sure you'd find a way around it.

I'm a senior web developer, typically skirting the line between individual contributor and management.

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#412

Post by miemo »

vubuntu wrote: post #337
shaftway wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have a degree and it almost never fails to come up. Ultimately I flunked out (for a variety of reasons). I've done a lot of A/B(/C/D/E) testing with my resume: - Don't include education - I'm asked about it. Every. Single. Time. - Include the years I attended college - Asked why I didn't finish. Every. Single. Time. - Include college in a misleading way - I did a summer extension program for 2 years while in…

>Ultimately I think there are a lot of industries that a degree requirement is a good thing (I really want my doctor to actually have an MD), a lot of industries where certification is sufficient . Why only Doctors? Because human lives are involved? I assume by the same logic, Civil Engineers also need to have a degree (they build bridges and other life critical infrastructure) There may be thousands of software prod…

i'm sure he wasn't intending to give you an exhaustive list

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#413

Post by mgkimsal »

rixrax wrote: post #81
mkirklions wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true for everything. People shouldnt blog, unless they are going to do hard work making the content useful. People shouldnt be a contractor, unless they have fantastic skills in a sector. If you are going to work hard and think hard, you will have success in nearly any market. If you copypasted the example android Hello World app, you arent going to succeed in the programming market.

From the mouth of John Cleese: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvVPdyYeaQU I realize I am not in tune with times, but it somewhat irks me that a lot of (generally) younger folk at work want to blog about every single task they've accomplished or assigned to. Often turning these seemingly routine tasks into heroic efforts described in the blog postings. I guess it's called career growth. :)

last full time job I had, I blogged almost daily, on an internal system I installed. I was laughed at a bit. Mgr asked for weekly 'status reports' but they always either had too little info, or outdated info. The blog was my daily/hourly notes. Initially I just said "read my blog" for the status update, but that didn't go well, but it helped me summarize.

Meetings? I had the discussion/outcomes in the blog. Tricky SQL or weird edge case decision? I blogged it.

A few months after I left someone said "thanks for writing that - it's been a huge help in figuring out why some of the stuff was done the way it was done". Same person who'd laughed at me for wasting my time. :)

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#414

Post by vlan0 »

ericb wrote: post #198
vlan0 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>well-meaning attempts to make college loans available to everyone for everything seem to have massively bloated the cost of education to a crippling degree. I'm not so sure about this as a cause. If you look at the costs for colleges that have increased over time, you can start to see where a lot of this money is going. Spending on new and maintaining aging technology is increased. And now you have entire department…

> There is seemly at least a Director of for everything. I would argue some of the things you list as causes of increasing tuition are the effects of tuition surpluses from additional income from a trillion in student loans.

I would agree. I've been in higher ed for the last 10 years and can tell you there are a lot of compounding factors that gotten us in this mess of high costs.

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#415

Post by mkirklions »

whataretensors wrote: post #316
mkirklions wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Confirming laziness. Instead of taking responsibility for not studying enough, you blame it on race. Your friends shouldve studied harder. It sounds like you knew what needed to be done.

With all due respect, you are indoctrinated into a culture of lies meant to confuse you into thinking you aren't special, likely to prevent you from negotiating or escaping. We can't expect everyone to be athletes or bodybuilders. Not everything is a test of will.

Math is a test of will.

As an extension engineering/programming is too.

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#416

Post by RandallBrown »

VikingCoder wrote: post #319
RandallBrown wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Schools don't necessarily know your major until your junior or senior year. Are you proposing a system where a school would accept you, decide there were too many of your preferred major, and kick you out or choose another? The other option would be to force 17/18 year olds to choose their future careers while in high school.

> a school would accept you, decide there were too many of your preferred major, and kick you out or choose another That happens all the time. So, yes.

I guess the difference is that the school was previously limiting you based on their resources, which is understandable. It would be a totally different thing if they said "You can't go nursing school because there are currently too many nurses and it might be hard for you to find a job, even though our classes are half full."

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#417

Post by heardtheword »

Jesus_Jones wrote: post #376
aarongough wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have a degree and honestly have never had any issues with recruiters or interviews for intermediate/senior 'software engineering' positions. I never represent myself as having a degree, but I don't go out of my way to point out my lack of degree either. Never once in an interview have I been asked about my education. One nice thing about software development positions is the interview process tends to be meri…

Software engineers are unlike almost any other advanced technical field, as in there is so much demand and so much change in the field that degrees aren't as important. After a few years of experience, that's what matters more. But i bet that first job is hard to get.

This is the reason I chose a community college with a high job placement record. I had a job right after graduation and gained experience working instead of wasting an extra 2 years in college. Plus, an associates degree costs significantly less than a bachelors.

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#418

Post by greedo »

hamandcheese wrote: post #187
luma wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be suggesting that the simple addition of a degree requirement is good because it narrows the search field. By this same argument, I could say I will only accept candidates that are left handed.

You should blindly throw away half of all resumes. Why? Because you don't want to hire someone with bad luck.

Depending on the job, it might be "good" luck...

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#419

Post by dilap »

TallGuyShort wrote: post #135
dilap wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not saying it's true for you, but everyone I knew at college that was working full-time was in my opinion getting far less out of college than they would have. You need time to ponder, to explore, to be curious. Having to grind insane hours just to get in the game might be workable for the very dedicated and tough, but it's certainly not an optimal experience, and something we should strive to make not necessary.

On the other hand, the 4 years I spent working full-time were hands-down the best education I got and directly led to my best job prospects upon graduation, whereas I had peers who finished a 4 year degree and then realized they had no desire to work in their field. Eliminating any cost of college also eliminates any need to ask if what you're studying is actually worthwhile.

I think getting work experience is great, but ideally it'd be in the form of part time work or (even better) summer internships.

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#420

Post by dilap »

GiorgioG wrote: post #140
dilap wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not saying it's true for you, but everyone I knew at college that was working full-time was in my opinion getting far less out of college than they would have. You need time to ponder, to explore, to be curious. Having to grind insane hours just to get in the game might be workable for the very dedicated and tough, but it's certainly not an optimal experience, and something we should strive to make not necessary.

> You need time to ponder, to explore, to be curious. Most of the kids going to college are not mature enough to do any of the above (come on, these are 17 year olds going 30k into debt for their first year alone.) The 'college experience' today is partying / drinking yourself into a stupor and amassing a ton of debt. No, not everyone, but for most that's reality.

Real cultural problem/phenonenom there, but not a reason to write off college entirely. 17 year olds are absolutely old and mature enough to do all kinds of valuable learning & thinking, if in the right culture. (So are 13 year olds!)
Post reply on HN