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GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

monal.im

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Re: GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

#621

Post by badsectoracula »

nemothekid wrote: post #544
badsectoracula wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because what is the alternative Wouldn't a better alternative be to design a messenger that complies with GDPR? Simple user accounts that can be deleted at the request of the user, peer-to-peer encryption (and where possible, communication), a "storage cabinet" for each user where encrypted data end in when the user is offline (with an encryption/decryption key that is generated client-side and transmitted while bo…

I don't think you actually answered his point. Sure you could build an IM client that is GDPR compliant, but at what point do the costs become so high that everyone just defaults to using Facebook because (1) they can afford to be compliant and (2) they are trained well enough to not fuck up their encryption. In other words, are we moving towards a world where unless you are VC backed (Signal, Telegram, Whatsapp, etc…

There is an assumption that there is some additional "natural" cost involved because of GDPR, but where does that assumption come from? The cost might currently exist if you are not compliant and you need to convert (or you need to skirt the edge between what is allowed and what not), but if you start with being firmly compliant from the design phase, where does the cost come from?

Re: GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

#622

Post by jimmaswell »

brandonjm wrote: post #606
jimmaswell wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not allowed to "degrade the service" or allow access contingent on consent to targeted ads/tracking, so the practice isn't going to be sustainable for websites when only a tiny percentage of users give consent, seeing how they get to use the site one way or the other - have their cake and eat it too.

> only a tiny percentage of users give consent Implying that the majority of user's wouldn't just instantly click the largest button that says "make this annoying wall of legal text go away" whether that is agreeing to tracking or not? While the inability to target ads based on data about you and your search history searches removes some amount of advertising income. Websites would still be allowed to show ads, and I…

"The study, which looked at ads run on member networks during 2009, showed that among users who clicked on a behaviorally targeted ad, 6.8% converted. That compared with only 2.8% of those who clicked on a run-of-network ad."

https://www.emarketer.com/Article/Behavioral-Targeting-Doubl...

Re: GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

#623

Post by closeparen »

cyphar wrote: post #380
zerostar07 wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can be respective of privacy without complying with GDPR. It requires a lot more than simply being privacy-conscious. (E.g. I don't think Hacker News is doing anything unethical even though they blatantly violate GDPR) > Legal compliance is a requirement for any business You are required to comply with the laws of your country, not those of other countries.

> You are required to comply with the laws of your country, not those of other countries. No, you are required to comply with the laws of any country you do business with. This applies to any type of business, and I don't see why "it's on the internet" appears to be the main counter-argument. If I buy something from you (via snail-mail or on the internet) and it doesn't follow the requirements of the consumer law in…

If you feel it’s important to comply with the laws of any country you accept HTTP connections from, why would you be upset with this outcome? Restricting your services to familiar jurisdictions until you can afford the legal advice to safely enter new countries is the only reasonable course of action in a world following that philosophy. One should not assume they’re familiar with the laws of 176 countries merely because they know how to start nginx.

Re: GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

#624

Post by abiox »

unreal37 wrote: post #569
cyphar wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You are required to comply with the laws of your country, not those of other countries. No, you are required to comply with the laws of any country you do business with. This applies to any type of business, and I don't see why "it's on the internet" appears to be the main counter-argument. If I buy something from you (via snail-mail or on the internet) and it doesn't follow the requirements of the consumer law in…

"you are required to comply with the laws of any country you do business with." Prove that. Because that's not how "the law" works. I am Canadian, my business exists only in Canada, and there are only two types of laws that apply to me. Canadian laws, and treaties that Canada has signed on to comply with. No other country in the world can just make some "arbitrary" law that affects me. Unless my country agrees. And t…

you seem to suggest that you can (for example) sell/distribute canadian alcohol in saudi arabia, even though it's illegal there. do you really think that's accurate?

every country has the right to enforce it's own laws within it's own borders. you don't get a pass to do whatever you please in another country without their permission.

edit: i noticed "my business exists only in Canada"

if you mean to say you aren't doing business in another country than what you've written isn't speaking to the point of "you are required to comply with the laws of any country you do business with"

Re: GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

#625

Post by tchock23 »

wuliwong wrote: post #162
Hamuko wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, you're saying "core business". Is this even a business? And I copy-pasted direct text from the regulation. Note how it says "large scale". Twice. If he is actually processing personal data on a large scale, then maybe it is not unreasonable to have a DPO.

Is "large scale" defined?

No. It's not defined. That's part of the problem...

Re: GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

#626

Post by [deleted] »

slrz wrote: post #571
zerostar07 wrote: post #132

While this developer may be overreacting (he probably doesn't need a DPO), i understand why it might just be easier to block it , at least until there are precedents about how to comply and more info on how the regulation will be enforced. GDPR can be scary for developers, because nobody actually knows how a website or app is supposed to work (I have yet to see a single example), and it requires a series of steps tha…

> The example of the cookie law (for which it's hard to argue that it has not utterly failed) should act as a bad precedent, not a good one. It is an utter failure but mostly because services try hard to turn it into a travesty and simultaneously manage to deceive their users by attributing blame for the annoying cookie warnings to regulators. "We are required by law to show you this stupid warning because our site u…

[deleted]

Re: GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

#627

Post by davidgay »

fcbrooklyn wrote: post #424
jacquesm wrote: post #273

This is a ridiculous over-reaction based on an extremely shallow interpretation of the GDPR. If you are running a small business and you feel that you won't be able to operate your business because of the GDPR consider all those other laws that you have to be in compliance with as well. If that's your attitude towards legal compliance then you should probably shut your business down completely rather than to hope tha…

It is impossible to sell raw-milk cheese in the United States. Are French cheese makers overreacting by simply choosing not to do business here rather than change their centuries-old production techniques? It is illegal to sell kinder eggs in the US, because of some law that involves children accidentally swallowing toys. Is Kinder overreacting by refusing to sell those candies here? You cannot buy Bovril in the US,…

> It is impossible to sell raw-milk cheese in the United States.

I've bought plenty of raw mil cheeses (domestic and imported) in the US.

http://www.realrawmilkfacts.com/raw-milk-regulations says: "In 1987, the FDA mandated pasteurization of all milk and milk products for human consumption, effectively banning the shipment of raw milk in interstate commerce with the exception of cheese made from raw milk, provided the cheese has been aged a minimum of 60 days and is clearly labeled as unpasteurized."

As many cheeses are aged more than 60 days, the ban on "raw-milk cheeses" is basically an urban myth.

Re: GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

#628

Post by jkaplowitz »

fcbrooklyn wrote: post #490
subway wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kinder is an amusing example, since they decided to offer a compliant variant of their product in the US. https://www.today.com/food/kinder-joy-chocolate-eggs-are-com...

Yes. Rather a step back from the original offering isn't it? If I'm being honest, I couldn't give a damn about the kinder eggs prohibition, as I am not a child, and I do not have children. The Bovril issue is by far my biggest personal concern, although I'd really like to be able to buy raw milk cheese.

There are states in the US where you can buy raw milk cheese legally. You just can't do it through interstate commerce, but for example it can be done in person at farmer's markets with cash. New York is one such state, I dunno about the other major tech hub states.

Re: GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

#629

Post by sunir »

jacquesm wrote: post #416
product50 wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is a 1 person team. Given him a break vs. being so aggressive in your comment. There is a cost associated with trying to figure out GDPR regulations, finding a lawyer, vetting their feedback, acting to hire folks, changing UI to give user an opt out, implementing that in the system etc. All these things don't drop from the sky. And they are a business. And as a business they have decided to get out of Europe as th…

> Given him a break vs. trying to me so aggressive in your comment. The article is spreading FUD and inciting others to spread it even further in the comments. > There is a cost associated with trying to figure out GDPR regulations, finding a lawyer, vetting their feedback, acting to hire folks, changing UI to give user an opt out, implementing that in the system etc. The GDPR is online, and has been for a long time,…

You don’t need a lawyer to comply with the law is a weird statement to put out there. You should retract.

Re: GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

#630

Post by jkaplowitz »

davidgay wrote: post #627
fcbrooklyn wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is impossible to sell raw-milk cheese in the United States. Are French cheese makers overreacting by simply choosing not to do business here rather than change their centuries-old production techniques? It is illegal to sell kinder eggs in the US, because of some law that involves children accidentally swallowing toys. Is Kinder overreacting by refusing to sell those candies here? You cannot buy Bovril in the US,…

> It is impossible to sell raw-milk cheese in the United States. I've bought plenty of raw mil cheeses (domestic and imported) in the US. http://www.realrawmilkfacts.com/raw-milk-regulations says: "In 1987, the FDA mandated pasteurization of all milk and milk products for human consumption, effectively banning the shipment of raw milk in interstate commerce with the exception of cheese made from raw milk, provided th…

Oh it's real enough, since there are also plenty of cheeses which are aged under 60 days and not traditionally pasteurized. It's also relevant for making yogurt and butter in traditional ways, though one can start with pasteurized and get an okay enough result.

But as I said in another reply to the parent poster, there are states which allow raw milk products in intrastate (but not interstate) commerce.

[Edit: Wow my text got mangled by autocorrect. Fixed so that it makes sense now!]

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