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GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

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Re: GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

#411

Post by s73v3r_ »

wilsonnb wrote: post #333
GordonS wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And yes, I'm arguing it's anyone's moral right to profit off information voluntarily entered into their website unless a specific agreement was made on the website to the contrary Views like this are exactly why we need the GDPR. I find it utterly ridiculous - disgusting even - that you really believe you have the right to do whatever you want with someone else's personal information. When you provide an email addr…

Why not? I have yet to see anyone arguing for data protection legislation actually give a reason that they think a users data belongs to the user.

I've never heard anyone complaining about it give a reason why they feel that it belongs to them.

Re: GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

#412

Post by zerostar07 »

bkor wrote: post #345
zerostar07 wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the laws you refer to preexisted. Did they tear down all the houses that don't comply with contemporary building standards? I dont think so. GDPR is enforced retroactively on everything since the beginning of the internet.

> GDPR is enforced retroactively on everything since the beginning of the internet. That is not allowed. GDPR is only enforced for things which do not comply after in goes into effect. Further, it's not specific to the internet.

yeah i don't mean the violations. i mean it's a regulation that must applies to all software equally regardless of when it was written.

Re: GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

#413

Post by [deleted] »

jacquesm wrote: post #284
noobiemcfoob wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your point is clear, but this is internet software all having to comply with the same regulations regardless of actual industry. I'm having to close my small construction company because the FDA passed harsher food safety requirements.

No, you don't have to close at all. You just need to comply with the law, just like everybody else. You also need to file your taxes, keep the books in order, ensure that you do not pollute the environment, in some cases you need to be licensed in order to be able to practice your trade and so on. Why would this particular regulation suddenly cause you to close your business unless you were doing something really sha…

[deleted]

Re: GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

#414

Post by jimmaswell »

lovich wrote: post #388
oaiey wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find your view very interesting. You have a very capitalist and US law based perspective on it. For one, not everything in a society needs to allow to "collect the fruits" of individual work (which is essentially capitalism). Europe has much more socialism mixed into their understanding of their societies than the US. Further, the US law is based on risks of heavy punishments but few regulations, while the law in m…

Please don't just say this is a US perspective. This is a sociopaths perspective that the current US legal system promotes due to the machinations of the same group of sociopaths. Every business owner here who would complain about how the GPDR is taking their rights to their personally earned data away would be the same people who launch a lawsuit because one of their competitior's products had a typeface that was va…

Targeted ads hardly qualify as abuse to me. Getting to use a website for free in exchange for your browsing data being analyzed is a great deal and a win/win for everybody.

Surely anyone who disagrees with your feelings on this matter must be a sociopath, though.

Re: GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

#415

Post by product50 »

jacquesm wrote: post #394
zitterbewegung wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Businesses hate regulation and uncertainty because it just adds to their costs. Large companies just eat the cost. For small businesses it’s practically impossible to be in compliance for all laws. But if the risk of not being compliant is too high and the reward is too low then they will choose this.

> For small businesses it’s practically impossible to be in compliance for all laws. I've been in continuous operation with my businesses since 1986 and I guarantee you that I've been compliant with the laws as much as I'm aware of them. The major transgressions involving business assets were parking tickets, speeding tickets ( Running a small business in a way that is compliant with the law is stupidly easy: know th…

That is the OPs exact point. Did you read the article? He mentioned that "The days of someone making something, putting it on the internet and offering it to the world seem to be over". And here you are talking about knowing the laws while the OP sits in a different country trying to run his business.

You might be from Europe and to you it may just seem sensible but 1-5 person companies often have to make tradeoffs like this. It is not right to say just comply with the law - it is so easy! The company, here, has decided that the cost is too high and that they are out.

Re: GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

#416

Post by jacquesm »

product50 wrote: post #404
jacquesm wrote: post #273

This is a ridiculous over-reaction based on an extremely shallow interpretation of the GDPR. If you are running a small business and you feel that you won't be able to operate your business because of the GDPR consider all those other laws that you have to be in compliance with as well. If that's your attitude towards legal compliance then you should probably shut your business down completely rather than to hope tha…

He is a 1 person team. Given him a break vs. being so aggressive in your comment. There is a cost associated with trying to figure out GDPR regulations, finding a lawyer, vetting their feedback, acting to hire folks, changing UI to give user an opt out, implementing that in the system etc. All these things don't drop from the sky. And they are a business. And as a business they have decided to get out of Europe as th…

> Given him a break vs. trying to me so aggressive in your comment.

The article is spreading FUD and inciting others to spread it even further in the comments.

> There is a cost associated with trying to figure out GDPR regulations, finding a lawyer, vetting their feedback, acting to hire folks, changing UI to give user an opt out, implementing that in the system etc.

The GDPR is online, and has been for a long time, you don't need a lawyer but if you feel that gives you more comfort then fine, you don't need to hire anybody, that is just plain nonsense, and changing the UI to give users an opt out: that should have been done two years ago.

> All these things don't drop from the sky.

Indeed, this did not drop out of the sky. It has been in the works for years.

> And they are a business. And as a business they have decided to get out of Europe as the above costs weren't worth it to them.

That's fine with me, the way in which it is presented is not fine with me.

Re: GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

#417

Post by s73v3r_ »

wilsonnb wrote: post #340
ricardobeat wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure the person you're replying to is also talking in the 'rightful' sense. While the data collected technically belongs to you, it can still be a privacy violation. This is extremely important on the web where it's very easy to share that data, make it public or accidentally leak it.

It can be a privacy violation but the idea of a fundamental right to privacy is not universally supported like free speech. If it is a fundamental right, how far does it go? Should I be able to sue you for watching me walk in a public place? Photographing me? Video taping me? What about a privately owned but still public place? There are a lot of questions here that I think people tend to skip over about users owning…

I'm sorry, but I cannot buy the argument that this is in any way, shape, or form related to "free speech".

Re: GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

#418

Post by leereeves »

jacquesm wrote: post #394
zitterbewegung wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Businesses hate regulation and uncertainty because it just adds to their costs. Large companies just eat the cost. For small businesses it’s practically impossible to be in compliance for all laws. But if the risk of not being compliant is too high and the reward is too low then they will choose this.

> For small businesses it’s practically impossible to be in compliance for all laws. I've been in continuous operation with my businesses since 1986 and I guarantee you that I've been compliant with the laws as much as I'm aware of them. The major transgressions involving business assets were parking tickets, speeding tickets ( Running a small business in a way that is compliant with the law is stupidly easy: know th…

> I guarantee you that I've been compliant with the laws as much as I'm aware of them.

All the laws, worldwide?

Are you in compliance with anti-blasphemy laws? Laws that forbid insulting the monarch? The tax regime of every country in the world?

The creator of Monal has decided the easiest way to be compliant with another country's laws is simply not to do business there, and I think you're underestimating the difficulty of the alternative (trying to comply with every country's laws).

Re: GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

#419

Post by optimalKEK »

jacquesm wrote: post #273

This is a ridiculous over-reaction based on an extremely shallow interpretation of the GDPR. If you are running a small business and you feel that you won't be able to operate your business because of the GDPR consider all those other laws that you have to be in compliance with as well. If that's your attitude towards legal compliance then you should probably shut your business down completely rather than to hope tha…

Thanks for clearing that up - I can't stand people who think they are above the law. Here in France and Germany, this law is creating a lot of jobs too. I hope more laws like that in the future so that even more jobs can be created. I love the EU :-)

Re: GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

#420

Post by enedil »

legitster wrote: post #331
grepnork wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having spent this week doing compliance for my small business customers, the cost is not zero but it's really not much at all - I've done full compliance for six companies and it cost less than £250 each (one of those clients is a large NGO). This guy doesn't like regulation and is playing to the crowd for sympathy.

We have spent 3 months and aren't done yet. I would love to know your secret.

Perhaps having legitimate purpose for data collection in the first place helps.
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