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GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

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Re: GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

#391

Post by jessaustin »

jacquesm wrote: post #351
jessaustin wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably that fraud involved assets that belonged to the corporation (or were represented to creditors as such) being transferred outside the corporation to other entities controlled by the owner? That will pierce. Imagine instead someone who builds a store in a location with insufficient commercial traffic and whose corporation fails for that reason alone: her creditors can't take away her house, her retirement ac…

Long story short: guy figured out a way to make money: create an LLC, rent some warehouse space, order hardware, sell hardware, pay invoices, order some more hardware, sell hardware, pay invoices. This cycle repeats a couple of times with higher and higher order values and then finally when the orders are really large (millions) holds a clearance sale, pockets the money and defaults on the invoice. Boom, company bank…

Both of these episodes are clear cases of commingling. "Pockets the money" and "as though it was his personal account" are key phrases that would command any forensic accountant's full attention. Without these or something like them there would be no justification for piercing.

Re: GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

#392

Post by cesarb »

skrause wrote: post #363
tobltobs wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for those detailed links. They are kind of eye opening, and I am German. However, it is hard to understand how stuff like GEZ, Schufa and article 35 can exist concurrently in the same country.

Schufa (the biggest consumer credit reporting agency in Germany) and article 35 can certainly co-exist. In fact you can write to Schufa and request that they delete all your data. However, if you do that, good luck ever getting a mortgage, credit card or other post-paid services ever again if all credit report requests come back with the reponse "no data available". So I wouldn't recommend that.

> However, if you do that, good luck ever getting a mortgage, credit card or other post-paid services ever again if all credit report requests come back with the reponse "no data available". So I wouldn't recommend that.

How does that work for people who never had a Schufa history? If for instance I decided to move today from Brazil to Germany, would I be unable to do all these things there, since they would have "no data available" on me?

Re: GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

#393

Post by zerostar07 »

kuschku wrote: post #334
zerostar07 wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the laws you refer to preexisted. Did they tear down all the houses that don't comply with contemporary building standards? I dont think so. GDPR is enforced retroactively on everything since the beginning of the internet.

> Did they tear down all the houses that don't comply with contemporary building standards? No, they fined everyone that owns homes commercially that did not upgrade the homes to comply. And then fined them again. And again, until they complied.

Where did that happen? There were earthquakes recently in Italy that tore down super-dangerous but not illegal houses.

In fact the construction sector is a very bad example here, because old buildings are usually covered by separate regulations , thats not true for software.

Re: GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

#394

Post by jacquesm »

zitterbewegung wrote: post #309
jacquesm wrote: post #273

This is a ridiculous over-reaction based on an extremely shallow interpretation of the GDPR. If you are running a small business and you feel that you won't be able to operate your business because of the GDPR consider all those other laws that you have to be in compliance with as well. If that's your attitude towards legal compliance then you should probably shut your business down completely rather than to hope tha…

Businesses hate regulation and uncertainty because it just adds to their costs. Large companies just eat the cost. For small businesses it’s practically impossible to be in compliance for all laws. But if the risk of not being compliant is too high and the reward is too low then they will choose this.

> For small businesses it’s practically impossible to be in compliance for all laws.

I've been in continuous operation with my businesses since 1986 and I guarantee you that I've been compliant with the laws as much as I'm aware of them. The major transgressions involving business assets were parking tickets, speeding tickets (Running a small business in a way that is compliant with the law is stupidly easy: know the law.

Now, there is one thing that I did that I know full well was against the law and that came about as a result of me getting very angry about some stuff that happened to a friend of mine. In that particular case I saw my actions as akin to civil disobedience. In the end it got superseded by others doing the same thing much better and at a much larger scale but I would have fully accepted the consequence of breaking the law in that case. But it would have been a conscious decision to break the law.

Incidentally: not knowing you are breaking a law is no excuse for breaking the law, ignorance is not a valid defense.

Re: GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

#395

Post by drewbuschhorn »

tluyben2 wrote: post #209
drewbuschhorn wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do I misunderstand this section: "Without prejudice to any available administrative or non-judicial remedy, including the right to lodge a complaint with a supervisory authority pursuant to Article 77, each data subject shall have the right to an effective judicial remedy where he or she considers that his or her rights under this Regulation have been infringed as a result of the processing of his or her personal dat…

That is not how the EU works, in the US i would be very afraid reading that, in the EU nothing will happen if you do not violate in a spectacular way, and that, after many warnings. They are after companies tracking you across real estate and selling relevant data from their vast silos to companies that can market stuff to you. They tried many ways already to prevent this kind of practice in some countries but loopho…

So we've gone from you can't, to you won't, to you almost certainly won't. I completely agree, I'm just saying the 1% possibility is something you have to live with.

Re: GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

#396

Post by abritinthebay »

Long story short: Monal developer doesn't understand GDPR, makes a bunch of incorrect claims about it, doesn't want to understand it, and so removes his software from the EU.

That's his right, go him.

He didn't have to write a ton of incorrect nonsense about the GDPR though. He could have just skipped to the last step.

GDPR compliance is not actually that hard - I'm in the middle of doing it for a very large company - as long as you're not storing information about users it's almost trivial tbh, but there are a lot of unfortunate vague terms in the law (the intent is rather clear however).

The reaction to this law in the US is rather funny because the rest of the world has been dealing with strange US laws for decades on the web... finally something bites the other direction and people freak out.

Re: GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

#397

Post by diminoten »

badsectoracula wrote: post #70
slackoverflower wrote: post #12

I'm convinced this is the start where EU citizens become second class Internet users. Many businesses just don't want to go through the troubles of GDPR regulatory hoops. For most businesses, there's enough customers to sustain their business in the US, Canada, rest of the world that they can ignore all EU customers.

If a business blocks EU citizens what will happens is that either another one who cares about GDPR will pop up and be able to work with both EU and non-EU citizens, or the business in question wont be that important in the first place. In either case, nothing will change for most people.

Maybe, but imagine if Google, Microsoft, Facebook, Amazon, etc. had decided to pull out of the EU. Not that any of them aren't replaceable, but providing the suite of functionality that any one of them does to their customers would not be a simple feat.

"Second class citizens" might not be the right term, but would "segregation" be an appropriate term?

Re: GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

#398

Post by fencepost »

jdietrich wrote: post #170
liveoneggs wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how do I know that I will not be? that's the issue

Because European courts and regulatory authorities are not run by gibbering morons. The Data Protection Directive was materially similar to the GDPR and was enforced by the same supervisory authorities. The DPD gave member states total discretion as to the level of fines, with no upper limit. I have found no evidence whatsoever of irrationally large or unreasonable fines under the DPD. You could be breaking the law i…

Because European courts and regulatory authorities are not run by gibbering morons.

Not the courts, but "Brexit"

Re: GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

#399

Post by jacquesm »

jessaustin wrote: post #391
jacquesm wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Long story short: guy figured out a way to make money: create an LLC, rent some warehouse space, order hardware, sell hardware, pay invoices, order some more hardware, sell hardware, pay invoices. This cycle repeats a couple of times with higher and higher order values and then finally when the orders are really large (millions) holds a clearance sale, pockets the money and defaults on the invoice. Boom, company bank…

Both of these episodes are clear cases of commingling. "Pockets the money" and "as though it was his personal account" are key phrases that would command any forensic accountant's full attention. Without these or something like them there would be no justification for piercing.

Excellent, thank you for pointing out the exact reasons why that happened. It made good sense from my perspective but to know the exact bits that would flag it is useful information.

Re: GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

#400

Post by tathougies »

jacquesm wrote: post #344
tathougies wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This guy is not a small business. He's just a guy, doing this for fun, it seems.

Hobbies cost money and time. In this case it will only cost him a little bit of time.

Perhaps this isn't obvious to everyone, but other people are actually not obligated to spend their time doing things you want them to.
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