College May Not Be Worth It Anymore • Hacker News Board

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#301

Post by bjourne » Thu, May 17, 2018, 6:37 PM UTC

GiorgioG wrote: post #140

dilap wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not saying it's true for you, but everyone I knew at college that was working full-time was in my opinion getting far less out of college than they would have. You need time to ponder, to explore, to be curious. Having to grind insane hours just to get in the game might be workable for the very dedicated and tough, but it's certainly not an optimal experience, and something we should strive to make not necessary.

> You need time to ponder, to explore, to be curious. Most of the kids going to college are not mature enough to do any of the above (come on, these are 17 year olds going 30k into debt for their first year alone.) The 'college experience' today is partying / drinking yourself into a stupor and amassing a ton of debt. No, not everyone, but for most that's reality.

> No, not everyone, but for most that's reality.

You've been watching to many American Pie movies. College students are insanely focused because they know how tough the competition is. No one has time to party.

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#302

Post by BlackDeath3 » Thu, May 17, 2018, 6:38 PM UTC

s73v3r_ wrote: post #258

gaius wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here, they even went so far as to say it didn’t even matter what you studied! That is why you should never take career advice from someone who ended up as a careers adviser....

But, here's the thing: They weren't wrong. The sheer number of people who have had their resumes ignored simply because they don't have a degree of some sort attests to that.

>> ...they even went so far as to say it didn’t even matter what you studied!...

> ...They weren't wrong. The sheer number of people who have had their resumes ignored simply because they don't have a degree of some sort attests to that.

This doesn't imply that having any degree would have gotten their resumes looked at, or secured them an interview.

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#303

Post by BlackDeath3 » Thu, May 17, 2018, 6:39 PM UTC

oh_sigh wrote: post #292

BlackDeath3 wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Vets can easily make 100k+ in rural areas where the median wage is in the 20s or 30s... Eh... depends on the job. I don't think that most prospective veterinarians dream of working for the USDA ($$$) when they graduate.

The median vet pay is $89k[1]. You don't need to work for the USDA to make 6 figures. [1] https://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/veterinarian/sala...

But ~$89,000 isn't six figures, so...? Also, I suppose it depends on the source and relevant area covered by the statistic. I've heard other (lower) figures elsewhere.

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#304

Post by amitmathew » Thu, May 17, 2018, 6:39 PM UTC

This is a very poor article. College is, on average, worth it [1]. What the article tries to articulate is that we're not seeing a comparable return on investment for students from lower-income families. This is tied to worse graduation rates. As one example, community college students graduate at abysmal rates [2].

This is actually no big secret to schools. There is a big focus on trying to improve retention rates. What might be interesting to the HN crowd is that there are many startups trying to improve the situation in different ways, like using analytics to identify at-risk students earlier [3] or getting students engaged in campus events [4]. It's a tough problem, but colleges are incentivized to fix it - higher retention leads to collecting more tuition.

[1] https://cew.georgetown.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/colleg...

[2] https://nscresearchcenter.org/wp-content/uploads/SignatureRe...

[3] https://www.civitaslearning.com/

[4] https://www.oohlalamobile.com/

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#305

Post by freeopinion » Thu, May 17, 2018, 6:40 PM UTC

snovv_crash wrote: post #230

freeopinion wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

College degree and ASVAB results are not similar criteria at all. They serve completely different purposes. A college degree shows an ability to complete a specific course of discipline. It does not really even indicate aptitude in the discipline. Just the ability to follow through and complete the requirements. I suppose it shows a minimum level of aptitude in that you didn't give up hope and quit. ASVAB doesn't ind…

> It does not really even indicate aptitude in the discipline. I don't know what standards are like in the U.S., but at least where I went to university a good 30% (of those who were in the top 20% of the highly selective entrance exam) ended up getting kicked out because they didn't pass enough courses in their first or second year. Yes, for some people it was an inability to concentrate, but I also know a few who p…

For sure, my experience is US-centric. I cannot speak to systems outside the U.S.

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#306

Post by anchpop » Thu, May 17, 2018, 6:41 PM UTC

whataretensors wrote: post #163

mkirklions wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Failed out of engineering= they didnt care I agree that most education should be learned on the job, but college is a filter to keep the lazy out of jobs that require the dedicated. Engineering was insane because they wanted people that would drop what they are doing to go to mexico with 7 hours notice. The dude that dropped out of engineering school is planning on fishing this weekend, hes not going anywhere his bos…

> Failed out of engineering= they didnt care I don't even know how to respond to this... my friends didn't fail out from a lack of effort. You also don't know this but all of my old friends are Mexican - so you are implicitly saying the reason they didn't succeed is because they are lazy Mexicans. I don't think you intended to take this stance. You likely got tricked with everyone else into believing in social constr…

> I don't even know how to respond to this... my friends didn't fail out from a lack of effort. You also don't know this but all of my old friends are Mexican - so you are implicitly saying the reason they didn't succeed is because they are lazy Mexicans. I don't think you intended to take this stance.

This is exactly the stance the GP intended to take. He said if you failed out of engineering, you're lazy. If you're Mexican, you're Mexican. Therefore if you're Mexican and you failed out of engineering, you're a Mexican who's lazy (phrased differently, a lazy Mexican). You seem to think this is racist, why is that?

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#307

Post by 0x00000000 » Thu, May 17, 2018, 6:42 PM UTC

VikingCoder wrote: post #7

I assert the expense of college is an awful burden to put on someone who must finance most of it through debt. It's a gamble. You can improve your odds of a happy outcome in that gamble by looking at the Student Loan Default Rate for any given major at any given college, and picking the best program for you (with the lowest default rate possible.) But if you are a child of parents who can finance your college? Absolu…

I was thinking about UBI and does anyone have a good explanation why the price of housing across the board wouldn't increase accordingly making it just an accelerated wealth transfer? The same way housing prices in military heavy towns are basically tired directly to the millitary housing allowance or how tuition goes up when you give everyone loans?

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#308

Post by deadmetheny » Thu, May 17, 2018, 6:43 PM UTC

Eire_Banshee wrote: post #175

deadmetheny wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The $50k is assuming financing. Nobody realistically pays for college tuition out-of-pocket unless they were lucky and their parents set up a fund for it. Source: myself and literally every single college person I know who attended public universities in the Midwest

I paid out of pocket. Just had to do the national guard for 6 years. They paid for like, 90% of it. It was pretty dope.

Very nice, I forgot about the military covering school as well. Thank you for your service.

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#309

Post by Mc_Big_G » Thu, May 17, 2018, 6:44 PM UTC

It's only "not worth it" because the whole student loan system has caused the cost of getting an education to skyrocket. Fix the system, take away extreme profits for universities, give everyone who wants it a free college education and it'll be more than worth it again. This would also increase the wealth of the USA by several order of magnitude. Unfortunately, instead of investing in our children and our future, we'd rather put money in the pockets of the rich, as we always do.

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#310

Post by cookiecaper » Thu, May 17, 2018, 6:46 PM UTC

Rapzid wrote: post #132

andrewvc wrote: post #36

College is probably a great thing for some people, but it's been oversold. It's not the destination, it's just one way of getting there. One reason why it's so easy to sell, is that college is a near universal experience for the middle and upper classes, and being an expensive experience, people credit it with much of the personal growth that happens in one's early 20s. They also credit it with making them good at th…

Haha, that's my experience too. I keep it to myself a bit better these days. Somebody asked me at my last role if I had my masters in comp science; "Hmm, not yet! I've been thinking about it though..." Sometimes when coworkers find out there is a remark like "Oh wow, I never realized that." Imagine after somebody had brought up their alma mater and I remarked "Oh wow, I never would have realized you went to college..…

I dropped out of high school to take a web dev job at a local firm. If we're being honest, I've always had a little weakly-repressed pride over the fact. When people ask me about education, beyond just stating that I haven't gone to college, I usually mention that I dropped out of high school.

Recently, a friend suggested that I avoid mentioning this to prevent stigmatization. I realize now there are probably a bunch of people who think badly of me for it, much to my bemusement. Until my friend mentioned it, it hadn't crossed my mind that anyone would interpret that as "this slob couldn't even finish high school".