College May Not Be Worth It Anymore • Hacker News Board

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#251

Post by VikingCoder » Thu, May 17, 2018, 5:55 PM UTC

justin66 wrote: post #195

VikingCoder wrote: post #7

I assert the expense of college is an awful burden to put on someone who must finance most of it through debt. It's a gamble. You can improve your odds of a happy outcome in that gamble by looking at the Student Loan Default Rate for any given major at any given college, and picking the best program for you (with the lowest default rate possible.) But if you are a child of parents who can finance your college? Absolu…

> Not to pick on them, but do we really need this many Art History Majors? You cannot calculate how many art history majors the world needs. You just need to trust people to act vaguely in their own interest, and society's interest, most of the time and to trust that things will work out. Consider the important exceptions to this approach, where we try to match the number of students to demand. You can sort of calcul…

If the student loan default rate is high, they are accepting too many. That's a metric that would work today.

A metric that might work in the future is to look at employment and job satisfaction.

> You just need to trust people to act vaguely in their own interest, and society's interest, most of the time and to trust that things will work out.

Sure. And I want free college, and progressive taxation.

I also advise that we do a far better job of publishing and thinking about career opportunities and satisfaction. Maybe even to the extent that schools should seriously consider whether it's responsible to accept X majors.

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#252

Post by s73v3r_ » Thu, May 17, 2018, 5:55 PM UTC

ryandvm wrote: post #211

awalton wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is probably a good thing, since it will slowly beat into the minds of upper-levels at corps and recruiters that a College Degree shouldn't be the minimum bar applicants need to reach, and maybe some of these companies will start removing the "has degree" band reject filter.

I don't know. If an employer is clueless enough to have such a filter, it's probably best that I don't work for them anyway...

Those kind of platitudes are nice, but they provide cold comfort to someone who can't feed their family.

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#253

Post by pbhjpbhj » Thu, May 17, 2018, 5:55 PM UTC

aarongough wrote: post #123

awalton wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is probably a good thing, since it will slowly beat into the minds of upper-levels at corps and recruiters that a College Degree shouldn't be the minimum bar applicants need to reach, and maybe some of these companies will start removing the "has degree" band reject filter.

I don't have a degree and honestly have never had any issues with recruiters or interviews for intermediate/senior 'software engineering' positions. I never represent myself as having a degree, but I don't go out of my way to point out my lack of degree either. Never once in an interview have I been asked about my education. One nice thing about software development positions is the interview process tends to be meri…

What was your first job (or first job on which most candidates had a degree)? How did you demonstrate domain specific abilities? Why did you leave?

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#254

Post by jsat » Thu, May 17, 2018, 5:56 PM UTC

Go to cheap state school and work reasonably diligently. Worth it every time. Private school isn't worth it unless someone other than you (rich parents or scholarship) is paying.

I got a full tuition scholarship at state school, and I'm reaping huge benefits now.

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#255

Post by zaccus » Thu, May 17, 2018, 5:56 PM UTC

mkirklions wrote: post #53

anoncoward111 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's already a shame that the answer isn't 100% yes, 100% of the time. back in the 70s, tuition was payable with a summer job and job prospects were decent enough despite geopolitical and economic headwinds these days, the same problems plague the job market, but every year of college costs 1 year of salary, unless you qualify for stackable forms of financial aid

People hate when I talk about working fulltime in the factory on the midnight shift and going to school fulltime. I didnt get 'the college experience'. But I didnt have any college debt, I became a hardened adult that didnt cry when plant people got pissed. I dont complain. If something needs to get done, I do it. Graduated in 3 years with my chem engineering degree at age 21. People will always complain about someth…

With that schedule, were you able to do much in the way of networking? That's part of the 'college experience', and is often cited as one of the greatest benefits of going to college.

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#256

Post by jjuhl » Thu, May 17, 2018, 5:57 PM UTC

nimbius wrote: post #224

speaking as a lead auto mechanic for a chain of shops, please for the love of god quit sending everyone to college. You're making it impossible to find anyone whos worked outside a starbucks. It takes on average nearly a year for us to do any meaningful hiring. We dont drug test, we dont do a background check in most cases, and we certainly dont care about credit scores. If we did, we wouldnt hire anyone at all. we j…

That's the best comment I've read in this thread so far. Great attitude! Wish there were more employers like you.

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#257

Post by SilasX » Thu, May 17, 2018, 5:58 PM UTC

nkrumm wrote: post #159

citilife wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Veterinarian programs specific limit how many students they accept, because if they didn't, their graduates wouldn't be able to afford a living wage. Other majors need to catch on. Medical schools do the same thing, but that's also what's causing a burden on the medical system. I truly blame most of the medical expense increases in the U.S. on them and medicare (which sets a base price and everyone else must make u…

The limiting factor is not the spots for medical students, but rather for residents and fellows, who are primarily funded through medicare/medicaid and the VA. An interesting post on this is here, although it somewhat contradicts the popular notion that graduate medical education is limited by funding: https://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/gme-federal-fun...

No, it isn't. There might be funding limitations, but if the demand to become a doctor is too high for the number of positions offered, then they can stretch the funding over more slots by passing more of the burden onto the resident in the form of lower pay.

To the extent that they can't legally lower pay, that is the factor, not the funding.

The argument that medicare funding slots is the limiting factor is like saying that Hamilton can't come to LA because the NEA won't cover airfare.

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#258

Post by s73v3r_ » Thu, May 17, 2018, 5:58 PM UTC

gaius wrote: post #167

SilasX wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, my HS counselor, in speeches to students at assemblies (c.1999), was constantly saying "It doesn't matter which college you go to, but you absolutely must get a degree."

Same here, they even went so far as to say it didn’t even matter what you studied! That is why you should never take career advice from someone who ended up as a careers adviser....

But, here's the thing: They weren't wrong. The sheer number of people who have had their resumes ignored simply because they don't have a degree of some sort attests to that.

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#259

Post by VikingCoder » Thu, May 17, 2018, 5:58 PM UTC

paulpauper wrote: post #162

VikingCoder wrote: post #7

I assert the expense of college is an awful burden to put on someone who must finance most of it through debt. It's a gamble. You can improve your odds of a happy outcome in that gamble by looking at the Student Loan Default Rate for any given major at any given college, and picking the best program for you (with the lowest default rate possible.) But if you are a child of parents who can finance your college? Absolu…

But if you are a child of parents who can finance your college? Absolutely. No question. This is essentially a way to enforce Aristocracy. Are you sure? $100k in college vs. $100k in S&P 500 ..I think the it's about the same. The grad starts with a -100k deficit (i'm assuming graduate school is included). The Aristocracy perpetuates itself through inheritance. I don't think most college grads, even with the wage prem…

I don't think most college grads know what it's like to be born to parents who aren't well off.

I'm leaning heavily on "most" here.

I don't think $100k in S&P 500 at 18 provides you with enough income at 22 and on. If you $100k in S&P 500 at birth or sooner, maybe.

Also, yes, if everyone in the country owned enough S&P 500 to get by, then... No, that wouldn't really work, would it? :)

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#260

Post by blueseaadmin » Thu, May 17, 2018, 5:59 PM UTC

topkai22 wrote: post #180

j_gu wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why then does the US military place people according to the ASVAB?

The ASVAB is a vocational (subject) test, not an IQ test. I think it does try to measure general intelligence in some sections, but it’s really focused on “can you do this type of job.” When I took it over a decade ago there was basically a “clerking” section which I flunked.

The ASVAB is what you say it is. I took it back in the mid 80s, scored just shy of perfect, yet I chose a combat MOS because of my interests and desire for going the "hard route". Looking back, I regret not going into a technical role in the Air Force rather than going Marines, but I've now been in IT for 20 years, and Uncle Sam paid for my degree when I left the service. All in all, a good gig.