Seaweed in Cow Feed Reduces Methane Emissions Almost Entirely • Hacker News Board

Re: Seaweed in Cow Feed Reduces Methane Emissions Almost Entirely

#181

Post by Can_Not » Thu, May 10, 2018, 4:00 PM UTC

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #171

beojan wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or just legislate that feed manufacturers must add the algae?

There couldn't possibly be any unintended side effects of that...

There are ways to mitigate unintended side effects. Start with a small small number of farms, AB test with no seaweed, small amounts of seaweed, medium amounts of seaweed, large amounts of seaweed, also AB test on which Farmers know which sample they are getting, iterate next year on results with larger number of Farmers. Buy insurance to compensate Farmers if the seaweed kills them. Discover why they died. Iterate with solution (if possible) or cancel (if seaweed always results in eventual death). Continue to keep large population of seaweed free cattle to mitigate possibly of extinction via unexpected long term consequences of seaweed.

Re: Seaweed in Cow Feed Reduces Methane Emissions Almost Entirely

#182

Post by std_throwaway » Thu, May 10, 2018, 4:00 PM UTC

mchannon wrote: post #144

std_throwaway wrote: post #109

Does the methane get released after the cow has finished digestion and the manure is left to rot? The carbon has to go somewhere if it's not turned into methane inside the cow.

Apparently most bovine-sourced methane comes from the burp part of the cycle rather than the fart. Manure may actually come in third when it comes to methane and the cow. Like humans (86%!), I suspect most carbon that passes through a cow is exhaled as carbon dioxide.

> I suspect most carbon that passes through a cow is exhaled as carbon dioxide.

That would mean that the cow gets higher nutritional value and can needs less food.

Re: Seaweed in Cow Feed Reduces Methane Emissions Almost Entirely

#183

Post by Can_Not » Thu, May 10, 2018, 4:03 PM UTC

vlovich123 wrote: post #75

slavik81 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A carbon tax or cap and trade system would create such an economic incentive.

What's to discourage the cattle owner from claiming their cows produce no methane due to seaweed use & then collecting the cap and trade/carbon tax benefit while not bothering with the seaweed? More broadly, how does cap and trade/carbon tax measure the footprint of a business in the first place? I've found no material on the subject but my guess is that they do it based on the power plant/fuel you're using & how muc…

If a farmer were going to defraud the carbon tax system, what would they do with the seaweed they paid for?

Re: Seaweed in Cow Feed Reduces Methane Emissions Almost Entirely

#184

Post by phkahler » Thu, May 10, 2018, 4:04 PM UTC

dig-doug wrote: post #146

phkahler wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if it turns out to make healthier cows? I'm not just making that up, I think it will probably have a positive effect - cows need iodine too! Not sure if it's enough to sway farmers.

Can't believe this comment is the only mention of iodine in both the thread and the article. I supplement iodine daily and it's honestly changed my life.

Ditto. Iodine and Magnesium have eliminated my asthma and had other positive effects - no sugar crashes two hours after eating for example.

Re: Seaweed in Cow Feed Reduces Methane Emissions Almost Entirely

#185

Post by samstave » Thu, May 10, 2018, 4:05 PM UTC

skosch wrote: post #137

konschubert wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One also has to consider that the methane decays over a matter of decades. Other than CO2, which stays in the atmosphere until it is taken out. So, even if methane takes a big share in current greenhouse emissions, its share in the accumulated greenhouse gases in the atmosphere will be lower. The climate change it causes is temporary. (Disregarding runaway effects.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_methane

Decades – we don't have decades to fix this. Also, it decays into CO2, so to claim that its effects are temporary is misleading. On top of that, as long as the carbon is in a CH4 bond, it traps at least 20× as much radiation. Please don't dismiss the significance of methane emissions.

We should he focusing on plastics rather than methane.

Re: Seaweed in Cow Feed Reduces Methane Emissions Almost Entirely

#186

Post by Rhinobird » Thu, May 10, 2018, 4:06 PM UTC

okreallywtf wrote: post #180

Serious question, what incentive is there for this to be done on a large scale by anyone? The EPA is being systematically dismantled and the official line of the government (or at least, those in charge of the government) is that climate change is not man made. If it is just a natural process, how could our food systems have any impact on it? I can't imagine how this wouldn't add at least some costs to feed prices, a…

>... dairy farmer named Joe Dorgan inadvertently conducted an experiment on his herd in Prince Edward Island, Canada. Dorgan noticed cows that grazed on washed-up seaweed in paddocks along the shore were healthier and more productive ... and found the new diet saved him money and induced “rip-roaring heats,” or longer cycles of reproductive activity.

Re: Seaweed in Cow Feed Reduces Methane Emissions Almost Entirely

#187

Post by samstave » Thu, May 10, 2018, 4:06 PM UTC

sdenton4 wrote: post #74

abainbridge wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My understanding is that around half of the world's greenhouse gas comes from livestock That's not right. The highest number I've been able to find for the whole of agriculture is 24% of world greenhouse gas emissions. https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/global-greenhouse-gas-emiss... About 25% of that is methane from livestock ( http://old.grida.no/graphicslib/detail/greenhouse-gas-emissi... ) So livestock is about 6…

Random Gaurdian story puts methane : "Methane accounted for about 16% of global greenhouse gas emissions in 2015, according to the IPCC." ( https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/sep/29/methane-... ) Wikipedia puts (with some question about the citation) methan at 4-9% of total greenhouse effect contribution, and CO2 at 9-26%. (And then water vapor way above that, at 36-72%.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green…

How are we producing water vapor more than say clouds?

Re: Seaweed in Cow Feed Reduces Methane Emissions Almost Entirely

#188

Post by jonwachob91 » Thu, May 10, 2018, 4:15 PM UTC

christophclarke wrote: post #168

Mister_X wrote: post #59

It will be interesting to see how this plays out, because right now the West coast from San Francisco North to at least Fort Bragg, has been suffering a kelp die off of great proportions. No one is quite sure whats going on, but apparently due to climate change, or at least warmer ocean water from further South that we've had for the last 5 or more years, has caused the kelp to die off at a rapid rate, to the point o…

Not sure about the situation on the West Coast, but based on a recent 60 Minutes episode there seems to be a burgeoning commercial kelp farming market on the East Coast. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/seaweed-farming-and-its-surpris...

Exactly what I was thinking about too.

The episode even talked about how the increase acidification is really good for growing kelp.

Re: Seaweed in Cow Feed Reduces Methane Emissions Almost Entirely

#189

Post by tomohawk » Thu, May 10, 2018, 4:19 PM UTC

rocqua wrote: post #167

tomohawk wrote: post #119

Perhaps they should study the nutritional impacts of the resulting beef before they get too far with this. Grass fed beef is much tastier and much more nutritious than feed lot fed beef. Does feeding the seaweed reduce the need for using antibiotics required when feeding corn to cattle? That would be a real win.

In what sense is grass fed beef more nutritious? It's a rather nebulous term, hence my question.

Eating grass provides better nutrition for the cattle, and the meat ends up with more nutrition such as omega 3s.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/heart-disease...

In a feed lot, cattle are fed a diet that practically requires antibiotics to keep them alive long enough to slaughter.

Re: Seaweed in Cow Feed Reduces Methane Emissions Almost Entirely

#190

Post by sdenton4 » Thu, May 10, 2018, 4:23 PM UTC

samstave wrote: post #187

sdenton4 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Random Gaurdian story puts methane : "Methane accounted for about 16% of global greenhouse gas emissions in 2015, according to the IPCC." ( https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/sep/29/methane-... ) Wikipedia puts (with some question about the citation) methan at 4-9% of total greenhouse effect contribution, and CO2 at 9-26%. (And then water vapor way above that, at 36-72%.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green…

How are we producing water vapor more than say clouds?

I think the table is attributing greenhouse to gases generally, not to man-made gases; as a result, water vapor wins. (OTOH, turning clouds into drinking water at scale would be a cool way to fight global warming and deal with drought at the same time. My understanding is that storm seeding has a pretty seedy history, though.)