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'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

theguardian.com

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Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#151

Post by ahartmetz »

jk2323 wrote: post #122
mhomde wrote: post #9

I think Berlins "Poor but happy" times are fast coming to an end. Rents have been rising quickly the last few years and tech companies and startups becoming more prevalent. Heck, Neukölln went from being a cheap alternative to being as trendy and expensive as Kreuzberg. Berlin kinda, from what I understand, enjoyed it's special culture much because it wasn't an industrial city and lacked an large international airpor…

"Mark my words, Berlin will be Europe's Silicon Valley within a few years." Doubt it. Lack of professional attitude. Disastrous politicians. 3rd tier universities. Lack of capital. Large underclass, big welfare spending. It is very hard to set up a "silicon valley". The silicon valley had and has some very unique points, including military origins, if I remember right. Germany still has a strong and broad industry, w…

The lack of legacy, good CS universities and capital may matter, I don't see how the other things you mention matter. The big plus is it's a great place to live - it is where things happen.

IMO computer science education is crap everywhere in Germany - it's either mathematics or latest hype topic with no "working technology" in the middle. Professors say informatics alumni will design algorithms, programming is for the plebs, or some such. Where do I even start?

There isn't a single respected programming language from Germany. We have nothing like OCaml, or Python, or INRIA or EPFL or ETH Zürich for that matter.

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#152

Post by rhapsodic »

yc-kraln wrote: post #81
valarauca1 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Salaries need to grow faster Berlin software engineer salaries are seriously worse then any where in america. I’ve seen desktop IT support in the US MidWest pay more than developers in Berlin. Hard to convince me to move internationally and write code. I can just move home, write zero code, and spend all day telling people to try, “turning it off and on again”. Cashing identical value checks.

Sure, but when you lose your job in the US Midwest you are without healthcare and you will probably lose your house, etc. It's impossible to compare jobs based only on salary, you have to calculate with the total cost of living and balance against services provided and peace of mind. One of the reasons there are so many startups in Berlin is because if you fail, you are taken care of--you won't lose your house, or yo…

>Sure, but when you lose your job in the US Midwest you are without healthcare and you will probably lose your house, etc.

More likely you will get another job at a comparable salary and keep your house and your healthcare.

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#154

Post by called_it »

l5870uoo9y wrote: post #125
dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #26

I always find it amusing that American companies, be it Amazon or Google, are surprised that people don't want them here. They seem to really believe people love them, whereas in fact people use them because they have to, and put up with problems caused by them also because they have to.

They are also moving right into the most radical left-wing area of Berlin, perhaps Germany, SO 36. When the protest there will die out, there won't be any other, and this seemingly unstoppable gentrification will just continue as elsewhere and the lower class will be quietly pushed further out to make way for the global tech class. Perhaps that is what it is on a philosophical level, a new class is being born and ass…

Asserts itself? Circles the wagons more like. On HN you can't even "abrasive", hahaha... "asserts itself" in the sense of "making bald assertions and tuning out any response they can't handle".

Well, if you don't face the backlash, the backlash will face you. So welcome to Berlin, Google. We'll make you cry, and then charge you to clean up your rotting corpse. One pathetic, spineless cunt at a time.

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#155

Post by evanlivingston »

jpatokal wrote: post #106
jpla wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The situation are a bit different though. The Bay Area is competitive despite its housing market, while Berlin to a large extent is competitive because of its housing market. If rents become similar to other major European cities Berlin will lose a lot of its appeal and potential compared to those other cities.

Silicon Valley became what it is today because there was cheap industrial land for chip fabs and random startups.

What? You're overlooking an enormous number of factors.

If it's cheap industrial land alone that made Silicon Valley how did Texas, Nevada, The Midwest and other places miss out on a tech business boom?

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#157

Post by fileeditview »

xiconfjs wrote: post #121
fileeditview wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on where you are coming from I guess. I never really thought about people leaving the US. More like an intra-European competition for talent. My point was however more targeted on the "go back home" guys. I (German) know several guys from Romania, Spain .. who don't plan to stay in Germany forever and just want to work here for a few years, earn good money (well compared to their country) and then return h…

aren't these the usual plans of guest workers who never go back, because of the same reasons they left their home country?

Maybe that is so. But my point is still valid. If I PLAN to do this I cannot go to a country where salaries are much lower than in my home country where I want to return.

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#159

Post by 0xsfv »

ahartmetz wrote: post #151
jk2323 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Mark my words, Berlin will be Europe's Silicon Valley within a few years." Doubt it. Lack of professional attitude. Disastrous politicians. 3rd tier universities. Lack of capital. Large underclass, big welfare spending. It is very hard to set up a "silicon valley". The silicon valley had and has some very unique points, including military origins, if I remember right. Germany still has a strong and broad industry, w…

The lack of legacy, good CS universities and capital may matter, I don't see how the other things you mention matter. The big plus is it's a great place to live - it is where things happen. IMO computer science education is crap everywhere in Germany - it's either mathematics or latest hype topic with no "working technology" in the middle. Professors say informatics alumni will design algorithms, programming is for t…

May I ask which part of Germany you live in and specifically what your opinion about TUM, KIT and RWTH Aachen is then?

I think it is logically not profound to speak for whole Germany.

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#160

Post by ahartmetz »

0xsfv wrote: post #159
ahartmetz wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lack of legacy, good CS universities and capital may matter, I don't see how the other things you mention matter. The big plus is it's a great place to live - it is where things happen. IMO computer science education is crap everywhere in Germany - it's either mathematics or latest hype topic with no "working technology" in the middle. Professors say informatics alumni will design algorithms, programming is for t…

May I ask which part of Germany you live in and specifically what your opinion about TUM, KIT and RWTH Aachen is then? I think it is logically not profound to speak for whole Germany.

I think it matters more where I studied. First Heidelberg, then FU Berlin - actually Physics with secondary subject CS. TUM, KIT and RWTH are maybe the best at CS in Germany, but IMO still not good. What are they known for except being good universities for CS?
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