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'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

theguardian.com

111–120 of 184 posts

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#111
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better schools for your kids, safer cities, better public transport, more and better maintained parks, better local produce. There are a lot of potential reasons for a decision like that.

You really think Eastern Europe ranks highly in those values?

Can't speak for the others, but here's Sofia's situation(at least from my experience):

- don't know about schools, but kindergardens are a privilege you'll be fighting for

- it's fairly safe, obviously exercise common sense

- the metro is great, but it only covers part of the city, the rest of public transit ranges from ok to abysmal, but if you pay for a year, it's cheap as hell too. But I've certainly had no need for a car, so it's doable if inconvenient at times.

- cycling infrastructure is horrible, and there isn't enough of it, but it's there at least and I don't think it's stopped anyone who wants to cycle

- Parks are fine, plus there's a mountain here, so if you need green, you got it.

Other factors you might want to consider:

- air quality and traffic are horrible, especially in winter

- night life is fine

- you can find good food, and you can find cheap food, and if you look, you can find good cheap food.

- gov healthcare is bad, but if you're in tech, your employer might give you additional private insurance, so it's not something I've had to worry about.

- taxes are low

- alcohol is cheap and there are no ridiculous "no sale of alcohol on Sundays or after 10pm" rules some western countries seem to like :).

- tech scene is active so if you want to hang around with techies, you won't be bored

- cheap marginal space is very much available if you don't want/need a glossy hip office in a nice location.

Personally I love it and it's main advantage is that although it's much more expensive than the rest of the country, it's still cheap as hell. I don't make much but I save a lot, I could probably afford to work only every other year if I was frugal enough. I did consider moving for the north-west a while ago, but I did the math and...yeah, the up in purchasing power would be there, but not enough to justify leaving. I still might do it just for the novelty and experience at some point.

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#112
post #9

I think Berlins "Poor but happy" times are fast coming to an end. Rents have been rising quickly the last few years and tech companies and startups becoming more prevalent. Heck, Neukölln went from being a cheap alternative to being as trendy and expensive as Kreuzberg. Berlin kinda, from what I understand, enjoyed it's special culture much because it wasn't an industrial city and lacked an large international airpor…

>Mark my words, Berlin will be Europe's Silicon Valley within a few years. It might happen- but it still wont have an airport.

It has two airports. They're just kind of small and weird (or at least Tegel is; haven't been to the other one).

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really think none of these places (including Berlin) will be the Silicon Valley of Europe just because the salaries are too low. Why would talent leave elsewhere to go to eastern Europe and earn significantly less?

Better schools for your kids, safer cities, better public transport, more and better maintained parks, better local produce. There are a lot of potential reasons for a decision like that.

It depends on where you are coming from I guess. I never really thought about people leaving the US. More like an intra-European competition for talent.

My point was however more targeted on the "go back home" guys. I (German) know several guys from Romania, Spain .. who don't plan to stay in Germany forever and just want to work here for a few years, earn good money (well compared to their country) and then return home.

This is however not possible if your home country has a higher cost of living.

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#114
post #47
post #38

I live in this neighbourhood and my office is on the same street, one block from the new campus. The area is nice and lively, so I get people want an office there (hell, I did the same!). But Google has the means to positively impact the less hip, more strugling parts of Berlin. I bet people would welcome them with open arms in Marzhan or Wedding.

Yes, but would the people Google wants to hire want to work in Marzahn or Wedding?

I worked in Charité in Wedding - it was fine, the only pain was I was living in Schlachtensee so I had a huge commute every day.

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#115
post #49
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I think I meant transatlantic airport, or a "large" airport. Not sure, it used to lack something I heard but not sure exactly what and if it's still true. They're struggling with building a new one so something :)

There might be transatlantic flights from Tegel, I'm not sure, but they're rare. Moscow and the Canary Islands are more or less the limits. I usually find myself going through Frankfurt, Paris or Amsterdam for intercontinental travel.

I was in Tegel a while ago, flying home to Dublin, so was in a non-Schengen section (Ireland's not in Schengen). The flight at the next gate was going to Beijing. I was kind of surprised, because Tegel has a very "small regional airport" feel (partially due to the weird design), but apparently there are flights to the other side of the world from there.

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#116
post #9

I think Berlins "Poor but happy" times are fast coming to an end. Rents have been rising quickly the last few years and tech companies and startups becoming more prevalent. Heck, Neukölln went from being a cheap alternative to being as trendy and expensive as Kreuzberg. Berlin kinda, from what I understand, enjoyed it's special culture much because it wasn't an industrial city and lacked an large international airpor…

> I think Berlins "Poor but happy"

It went „poor but sexy”. The city is still poor but now got wrinkles and gray hairs here and there.

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#117
post #9

I think Berlins "Poor but happy" times are fast coming to an end. Rents have been rising quickly the last few years and tech companies and startups becoming more prevalent. Heck, Neukölln went from being a cheap alternative to being as trendy and expensive as Kreuzberg. Berlin kinda, from what I understand, enjoyed it's special culture much because it wasn't an industrial city and lacked an large international airpor…

No way. Europe's Silicon Valley will establish in Eastern Europe, where living is cheaper and governments are more willing to ease up on regulations to accomodate the flexible start-up employer-employee relationships. Warsaw, Sophia, Tallinn, those are the spots to keep an eye out for.

"Warsaw, Sophia, Tallinn"

Doubt that any East European city will be close to a "European Silicon Valley" because of many reasons. Language. Xenophobia. Capital. Location. Culture.

Bucharest comes to mind but because of other reasons. Quite big and Romania has a higher GDP growth than China. But still. no.

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#118
post #34
post #9

I think Berlins "Poor but happy" times are fast coming to an end. Rents have been rising quickly the last few years and tech companies and startups becoming more prevalent. Heck, Neukölln went from being a cheap alternative to being as trendy and expensive as Kreuzberg. Berlin kinda, from what I understand, enjoyed it's special culture much because it wasn't an industrial city and lacked an large international airpor…

I agree completely that "cheap Berlin" is rapidly disappearing. Just this morning I was checking real-estate prices[0] for the first time in a few years and was a bit shocked. Folks in Silicon Valley or Munich or Hamburg would probably still find it cheap-ish but AFAIK local salaries have not remotely kept up with this trend. A million Euros for a nice family-sized flat in a good neighborhood is not exotic anymore, b…

Oh yeah, BER is a very expensive joke at the moment.

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#119
post #9

I think Berlins "Poor but happy" times are fast coming to an end. Rents have been rising quickly the last few years and tech companies and startups becoming more prevalent. Heck, Neukölln went from being a cheap alternative to being as trendy and expensive as Kreuzberg. Berlin kinda, from what I understand, enjoyed it's special culture much because it wasn't an industrial city and lacked an large international airpor…

I can't help but think of that Leanord Cohen song, "First we take Manhatten".

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#120
post #101
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking of Estonia, I was at their embassy in Stockholm last fall and they were pushing hard for Tallinn as the next European capital of tech. Nearly every conversation you had with them, regardless of topic, would somehow gravitate toward how great Estonia is to set up a tech shop. Whether because of cheap real estate or the quality of their work force, or the prevalence of craft beer – it was all just a great plac…

Honestly speaking, Tallinn is a boring place. Might be good for business but I don't see it as attractive for people willing to move, maybe in the short-term for a job but it's not a place I'd see many settling in. Go visit it anyway, that's, of course, just my impression, but even living in Stockholm (a place I consider a bit boring for my standards of big city life) I found Tallinn very very dull.

Tallinn is massively more fun than Helsinki
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