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'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

theguardian.com

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Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#91

Post by charlesdm »

mstade wrote: post #75
saintPirelli wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No way. Europe's Silicon Valley will establish in Eastern Europe, where living is cheaper and governments are more willing to ease up on regulations to accomodate the flexible start-up employer-employee relationships. Warsaw, Sophia, Tallinn, those are the spots to keep an eye out for.

Speaking of Estonia, I was at their embassy in Stockholm last fall and they were pushing hard for Tallinn as the next European capital of tech. Nearly every conversation you had with them, regardless of topic, would somehow gravitate toward how great Estonia is to set up a tech shop. Whether because of cheap real estate or the quality of their work force, or the prevalence of craft beer – it was all just a great plac…

I know a guy who lives there (he moved there, not a native), doing consulting and working remotely.

The advantage partially comes from the fact that developers are paid significantly above average wages, i.e. the average salary for most people is low (like 400 to 600 euros a month pre tax) yet developers take home 1,500 / 2,000 / 4,000 euros per month.

Cost of living + taxes are low as well.

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#92

Post by collyw »

tannhaeuser wrote: post #59
mhomde wrote: post #9

I think Berlins "Poor but happy" times are fast coming to an end. Rents have been rising quickly the last few years and tech companies and startups becoming more prevalent. Heck, Neukölln went from being a cheap alternative to being as trendy and expensive as Kreuzberg. Berlin kinda, from what I understand, enjoyed it's special culture much because it wasn't an industrial city and lacked an large international airpor…

It's "poor but sexy".

Its overrated in my opinion. I never really understood the appeal.

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#93

Post by collyw »

biztos wrote: post #47
tnolet wrote: post #38

I live in this neighbourhood and my office is on the same street, one block from the new campus. The area is nice and lively, so I get people want an office there (hell, I did the same!). But Google has the means to positively impact the less hip, more strugling parts of Berlin. I bet people would welcome them with open arms in Marzhan or Wedding.

Yes, but would the people Google wants to hire want to work in Marzahn or Wedding?

IBM has a train station outside of the city in Scotland, why couldn't Google do that?

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#94

Post by itsmenotyou »

tnolet wrote: post #38

I live in this neighbourhood and my office is on the same street, one block from the new campus. The area is nice and lively, so I get people want an office there (hell, I did the same!). But Google has the means to positively impact the less hip, more strugling parts of Berlin. I bet people would welcome them with open arms in Marzhan or Wedding.

This is true, but Google isn't a philanthropic organization. They want to profit from the reflective "hipness" that comes from being based in Kreuzberg, even if by being there they accelerate the destruction of that same hipness.

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#95

Post by oblio »

itsmenotyou wrote: post #85
oblio wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry for the hipsters, but Berlin is the capital of the biggest economy in Europe and it was once one of the biggest metropolises in the world plus one of the biggest hubs of economy and science. It was always destined to go towards its past glory once Germany reunited. The only question was: "how long will it take for that to happen?".

Two points of contention: 1. It's not just hipsters this is affecting 2. This is not necessarily a move towards "glory". Most Berliners value the arts and cultural scene that exists in part due to low rents/cost of living and readily available performance/exhibition spaces. To see Berlin turned into another Silicon Valley would for most of us here be a major downgrade

Ok, to clarify a bit: cities are roughly ranked into categories. The rankings are quite fuzzy but I still think they're a good starting point for discussion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_city

Based on the geostrategic importance of Berlin (capital of Germany, the biggest city in Germany, central position in the EU, etc.) it should be an Alpha+ city, if not an Alpha++ city. Right now it's not due to a historical accident that is being "fixed": the separation into West and East.

According to that study from 2004 (ancient, I agree), Berlin was classified as Beta. For comparison, they classified Bucharest as Beta+. I'm Romanian, but there's no way that makes any sense unless Berlin is "underperforming".

So if you're a Berliner, brace yourself! Want it or not, Berlin will move up in the world to its rightful place and prices will go up accordingly.

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#96

Post by saintPirelli »

fileeditview wrote: post #79
saintPirelli wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No way. Europe's Silicon Valley will establish in Eastern Europe, where living is cheaper and governments are more willing to ease up on regulations to accomodate the flexible start-up employer-employee relationships. Warsaw, Sophia, Tallinn, those are the spots to keep an eye out for.

I really think none of these places (including Berlin) will be the Silicon Valley of Europe just because the salaries are too low. Why would talent leave elsewhere to go to eastern Europe and earn significantly less?

Better schools for your kids, safer cities, better public transport, more and better maintained parks, better local produce. There are a lot of potential reasons for a decision like that.

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#97

Post by deanCommie »

oblio wrote: post #95
itsmenotyou wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two points of contention: 1. It's not just hipsters this is affecting 2. This is not necessarily a move towards "glory". Most Berliners value the arts and cultural scene that exists in part due to low rents/cost of living and readily available performance/exhibition spaces. To see Berlin turned into another Silicon Valley would for most of us here be a major downgrade

Ok, to clarify a bit: cities are roughly ranked into categories. The rankings are quite fuzzy but I still think they're a good starting point for discussion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_city Based on the geostrategic importance of Berlin (capital of Germany, the biggest city in Germany, central position in the EU, etc.) it should be an Alpha+ city, if not an Alpha++ city. Right now it's not due to a historic…

This list is heavily biased by political influence.

The fact that "Luxembourg" - a glorified village is an "Alpha" city says more about it's significance in the European Union than any amenities/industry/jobs/lifestyle that exist (or rather don't exist) in the city.

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#98

Post by Jommi »

saintPirelli wrote: post #96
fileeditview wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really think none of these places (including Berlin) will be the Silicon Valley of Europe just because the salaries are too low. Why would talent leave elsewhere to go to eastern Europe and earn significantly less?

Better schools for your kids, safer cities, better public transport, more and better maintained parks, better local produce. There are a lot of potential reasons for a decision like that.

You really think Eastern Europe ranks highly in those values?

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#99

Post by krylon »

_b8r0 wrote: post #61
mhomde wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe Leipzig is the new Berlin :)

Nah, Bielefeld is where it's at ;)

I keep telling people that places like London or Paris are more like the sleepy outskirts of the vibrant metropolis that is Bielefeld. They rarely take me serious, though. ;.-(

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#100

Post by teddyuk »

bitL wrote: post #87
saintPirelli wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No way. Europe's Silicon Valley will establish in Eastern Europe, where living is cheaper and governments are more willing to ease up on regulations to accomodate the flexible start-up employer-employee relationships. Warsaw, Sophia, Tallinn, those are the spots to keep an eye out for.

The closest to Silicon Valley is London, however salaries there are pitiful. By the time Europe has any attempt to actually create an extremely well-paid bleeding-edge tech hub, that tech will be already in consolidation phase... Dream on.

contractor salaries in london are sweet!
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