Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley • Hacker News Board

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#641

Post by bproven » Sat, May 05, 2018, 5:20 PM UTC

trhway wrote: post #543

jonny_eh wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems way too high to me (I even used to work at Netflix as an engineer years ago).

all the Netflix engineer salaries i know about are larger than $400K. And it may give you nightmares when/if you hear what Netflix offers when it gets into an offer bidding war with a compensation-comparable company :) To GP questions - there is a lot of info available around about FANG compensation. Wrt. other companies - several guys around have recently landed new jobs - between 250K by a junior guy with 12 years…

I like how juniors are 10-12+ years lol

This may be true, but again these are outliers - most people here are not cranking down 400K. Netflix hires the best of the best so these people are the top 10% of engineers probably... Not the avg joe

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#642

Post by Apocryphon » Sat, May 05, 2018, 5:25 PM UTC

t1o5 wrote: post #636

jkaplowitz wrote: post #617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to have to defer a substantive reply due to weekend plans, but if I have time Sunday night or Monday and this topic is still receiving enough attention that it would be broadly useful, I'll do so then. (No point in a delayed reply if it's just two strangers arguing at each other in isolation from the community discussion.) But again, many of these statements rely on inaccurate assumptions, overlook importan…

I have no further interest in taking this conversation forward. I immigrated to Canada on Express Entry in which I got points based on my skills and that too within 3 months. I feel for my colleagues in Quebec whose applications are on hold in Quebec with no explanation from MIDI for the past one year. If you start asking cites for all these from official source which is MIDI, I can't give you because MIDI don't have…

I would appreciate the previous poster replying, as I believe his points will prove enlightening to this thread.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#643

Post by econochoice » Sat, May 05, 2018, 5:27 PM UTC

adventured wrote: post #559

xordon wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Canadian who has lived in the US for 1 year (in SF) I have a totally different take away. I noticed that people here are very hard working, almost as they are desperate for success, like if they fail or lost their job they would just die, poor and homeless and healthcare-less. I found that people in Canada were much more focused on happiness and were more willing to make sacrifices to improve their quality of li…

> like if they fail or lost their job they would just die, poor and homeless and healthcare-less Poor people get free healthcare in the US. I'm not sure how you could not know that after decades of that being the case. Medicaid has existed since 1965. Not only has it broadened out considerably, today there is also CHIP and SS disability to further supplement that along with countless smaller programs. Just Medicaid +…

Before Medicaid expansion, Medicaid was strictly for disabled populations under the age of 65 and below a certain income.

After Medicaid expansion, Medicaid is offered to those with an income of below ~130% of the federal poverty line: roughly $16k a year for an individual. I think we'd both agree that $16k/yr is abjectly poor, and those making even 50% more than that are still very poor.

However, only 33 states have expanded Medicaid. Some of the poorest states in the Union have not expanded Medicaid. Therefore, Medicaid is still strictly for disabled population under a certain income in those states.

To say poor people get free healthcare in the US isn't a true statement. Some very poor people in the US have access to Medicaid, depending on their location and income. Some poor people in states that have expanded Medicaid will still not get free healthcare because, while they are objectively poor, they do not meet the income requirements for Medicaid.

For those with a low income, and without access to Medicaid, health insurance premiums are very high and have deductibles that people would need to take a car loan out to pay.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#644

Post by CydeWeys » Sat, May 05, 2018, 5:35 PM UTC

estebank wrote: post #396

CydeWeys wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but most companies in this space provide some sort of healthcare, which covers a lot of that, and accidents are a small percentage of total healthcare outlays anyway. Much more healthcare spending goes to older people, for a much broader array of more common conditions than "got into a bad car accident". Health insurance is much more expensive at 55 than at 25.

Younger people do have fewer needs to treat chronic illnesses. That doesn't mean that healthcare can never be a significant financial burden regardless. - I've met people that have had terminal cancer in their very early 30s (didn't leave a giant bill to their state as this happened in the UK) - I've had a friend that needed an ambulance for his pregnant wife from an airport (>10K USD in out of pocket expenses) - I'v…

I think it's pretty clear from context that I was talking about average medical expenses by age, for which older people do pay much, much more.

Also, $10K is a low figure for medical expenses compared to how much one can spend. End of life care for the elderly can easily run into the hundreds of thousands of dollars per year. My grandfather has been in and out of the hospital a lot this year with a broken hip, complications thereof, and fairly advanced dementia, and his covered medical expenses have been astronomical. He gets full-time care every waking moment, 7 days a week -- so that's several full-time salaries on top of medical expenses. $10K doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of how much it can cost to treat someone.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#645

Post by EduardoBautista » Sat, May 05, 2018, 5:48 PM UTC

netheril96 wrote: post #496

ido wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can replace "Canadian" with almost every other country on earth and the question stays the same. I live in Germany, which has similar wages for software engineers as Canada. And in a 2 hours train ride I can be in Poland, where software engineers earn 1/3 their German counterparts.

I guess that Germany and Poland do have problems similar to Canada, except that their brains are harder to be drained by America due to the distance.

Also Canadians have a much easier visa to get.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#646

Post by astrange » Sat, May 05, 2018, 5:52 PM UTC

_dczq wrote: post #319

jahvo wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>To quote this excellent article[1]: "the default setting of the Canadian male: a dull but stern dad, who, under a facade of apparent normalcy and common sense, conceals a reserve of barely contained hostility toward anyone who might rock the boat. To these types, those who make a fuss are bothersome and ignorant at best, and probably dangerous and destructive too." Just being a conservative or a right-winger is both…

What does this description have to do with being a "right-winger"? Looks like you are the one bringing a preconceived worldview into the discussion. You are not a victim.

It’s a quote from an article about a paleoconservative, Jordan Peterson. Isn’t it?

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#647

Post by coldtea » Sat, May 05, 2018, 5:58 PM UTC

WiseWeasel wrote: post #629

neuromantik8086 wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that's why Germany has maglevs and high speed rail and California can barely get it's own HSR off the ground. That's a truly awful saying that's emblematic of the stupid prejudices brought about by American exceptionalism and the even more obnoxious (to me) West Coast exceptionalism.

As much as I nodded along with your exasperation at the parent poster's (father's) demonstration of bias, you can't compare long-distance public transportation infrastructure in places with the population densities and growth rates of Germany and California, two extremes in that sense. California has 1/5 more area, with half the population, and that population has almost doubled over the last 35 years, versus a few %…

>you can't compare long-distance public transportation infrastructure in places with the population densities and growth rates of Germany and California

You very much can. Parent didn't ask Californians to build infrastructure in Yosemite or the Death Valley. Heck, not even in Bakersfield.

How's that L.A, San Diego, and San Francisco public transportation infrastructure? Places that, if anything, have more population density than the most populus German cities?

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#648

Post by enra » Sat, May 05, 2018, 5:59 PM UTC

NathanCH wrote: post #231

So all you people making $100K+ salary, how much are you actually saving per month? I make half that, live in Vancouver, own a car, and still invest $1,000 a month. I already have more money saved than 99% of Canadians and I'm only 27. I imagine you Americans with six figure salaries are saving 3-5K per month? Crazy.

It’s not that hard to save at least half of your net salary, (4-6k a month) and still live well & travel etc. On top of the base salary companies usually offer stock options or shares than can be $100k-250k a year and bonuses. If the company does well the value of the stock can increase or multiply.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#649

Post by isostatic » Sat, May 05, 2018, 5:59 PM UTC

benjiwengy wrote: post #598

weber111 wrote: post #589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1/4 acre is pretty normal for middle-class neighborhoods in much of the US. A land tax would have to be pretty drastic to force people to knock down houses, split/combine plots, and build new houses repositioned to be more dense than they are now. I think a better solution would be relaxing zoning/making new development easier in areas of high scarcity.

The value of land is the opportunity cost of not putting it to its best use withing existing planning regulations/zoning. Its is also the loss of opportunity suffered by those excluded with left uncompensated leads to a net transfer of incomes, capitalised into rental incomes and selling prices, and a misallocation of resources. Housing issues are purely a symptom of this economic injustice. A Land Value Tax ends tha…

Towards zero, but would never reach zero unless the land was worthless.

If you can make an acre of land in SF generate $1m profit a year, even with a 10,000% LVT it would still be worth $10k. With a more realistic 2% LVT, it would be worth $980k.

However if your acre of land makes $15k a year in profit as a parking lot, a 2% LVT means that you'll sell it to someone who can utilise the space in a better way, rather than make a $5k loss.

That person may build a house, and pay $20k a year in tax, setting a rental value of $1700pcm. Or they may build a 5 home building and pay $4k a year in tax per home, setting a rental value on each home at $350pcm.

If they want a $36k a year profit, then those prices mean renting out a single home for $4700pcm, or 5 homes for $850pcm each.

Zoning laws vary the value of the land of course. Land zoned as 'a park' is pretty much worthless (but not valueless). Land zoned as 'single story house' is worth at least $8m an acre ($2.5m for a house on a 1/4 acre plot). Land zoned as 'multi story' may be worth say $20m an acre.

However at 2% LVT, the single story home will be paying $160k per acre per year. The multi story with 40 homes will pay $10k a year per acre per home. Far cheaper, thus able to attract more buyers.

On top of that, there's a large incentive for residents in single story homes to rezone their area to multi story -- land price increases 150%, they sell up their (current) $2.5m home for $5.5m, making a cool 3M in profit.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#650

Post by coldtea » Sat, May 05, 2018, 6:01 PM UTC

ryanobjc wrote: post #155

_xzxj wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canadian here (who lives outside of Canada but recently did a stint there for a bit) and this will sound negative but f-it. Canadian culture sucks when it comes to trying new things. Canada has some extra safety net but the culture is puritanical and conservative and nobody wants to go out on a limb and try something new and crazy. Not like Americans. Those that do are constantly questioned by everybody. The idea of…

The liberalness of Canada is overhyped. The reality is Canada is deeply conservative. It's possible to have universal health care and be conservative, that's only a oxymoron in the US. To quote this excellent article[1]: "the default setting of the Canadian male: a dull but stern dad, who, under a facade of apparent normalcy and common sense, conceals a reserve of barely contained hostility toward anyone who might ro…

>I was born in Canada. I went to school in Canada. Only once I moved to the US did I feel like I could express and be myself. That I am surrounded by people who think like I do and value the things I value.

So to escape the uniformity of Canada you left and went to find a place were people think like you and value the things you do?

Isn't that what those Canadians are all about as well? Seeking the company of other similar thinking people?

The really open mind thing would be to recognize that some cultures like to experiment, others not, and both are fine.