Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley • Hacker News Board

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#501

Post by chrispyper » Sat, May 05, 2018, 2:22 AM UTC

eloff wrote: post #364

xenihn wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I ask what sector and languages/frameworks you use?

I do full-stack but focus mostly on backend. I work in any language, platform, or framework the job requires. There aren't that many remote jobs, so being flexible on the technology side helps me get the best. I find Go to be very much in demand right now. C++ is making something of a comeback ever since C++11.

How do you find remote work? I have 15 years experience, and pretty darn good at what I do. I just find it so much easier to get in-person work.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#502

Post by netheril96 » Sat, May 05, 2018, 2:22 AM UTC

woolvalley wrote: post #274

jorblumesea wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada's main attraction is the social services and basicaly guaranteed citizenship. The US's main attraction is money and technical opportunities and also some vague promise of a green card.

If you were not born in China or India, then getting a green card isn't a vague promise. Go work at google, try to get an H1B or L1 ASAP and then get your green card in 1-2 years after that.

Given that much more Chinese and Indians still prefer US to Canada, further and further elongating the lines for green card, it seems the Canadian advantage is not so enticing after all.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

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Post by acchow » Sat, May 05, 2018, 2:26 AM UTC

_xzxj wrote: post #134

whack wrote: post #66

Canada is in a really tough spot here. I've always admired Canadian culture/values, and in the abstract, would love to live in Canada one day. However, as a Software developer, the compensation and opportunities that one can find in SF/Seattle/NYC dwarf anything in Canada. Until this changes, Canada is always going to lose its brightest engineers, which will in turn worsen the problem even further. Some solutions I c…

Canadian here (who lives outside of Canada but recently did a stint there for a bit) and this will sound negative but f-it. Canadian culture sucks when it comes to trying new things. Canada has some extra safety net but the culture is puritanical and conservative and nobody wants to go out on a limb and try something new and crazy. Not like Americans. Those that do are constantly questioned by everybody. The idea of…

Agree completely. Born and raised in Toronto. Canadians are nice and the diversity is great. But San Francisco was a breath of fresh air I didn't even know I needed until I came here. Toronto feels so rigid in comparison. I don't want to ever leave California.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

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Post by xordon » Sat, May 05, 2018, 2:29 AM UTC

ahelwer wrote: post #353

ryanobjc wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The liberalness of Canada is overhyped. The reality is Canada is deeply conservative. It's possible to have universal health care and be conservative, that's only a oxymoron in the US. To quote this excellent article[1]: "the default setting of the Canadian male: a dull but stern dad, who, under a facade of apparent normalcy and common sense, conceals a reserve of barely contained hostility toward anyone who might ro…

Honestly I gotta agree with you here, bud. When I was growing up in Canada I had to keep my dreams a secret. If you had any grand goals people thought you were an egomaniacal weirdo. It wasn't until I seriously dated someone here in the US that I realized the difference: as part of the "delving into each others' inner lives" phase of the early relationship, I sheepishly admitted I had dreams of doing some pretty big…

As a Canadian who has lived in the US for 1 year (in SF) I have a totally different take away. I noticed that people here are very hard working, almost as they are desperate for success, like if they fail or lost their job they would just die, poor and homeless and healthcare-less.

I found that people in Canada were much more focused on happiness and were more willing to make sacrifices to improve their quality of live, though in Vancouver the housing crisis was a gut check for anyone who's goals include owning a home, or starting a family.

There is money to be made here in the valley, especially in tech, but it is not where I intend to be permanently. I want to retire one day, and I probably can't do that here. I definitely couldn't do that in Vancouver with a local salary.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#505

Post by m23khan » Sat, May 05, 2018, 2:32 AM UTC

meh -- this has always been the case with Canadian IT jobs, this is not some new development. Nobody can realistically compete with USA's tech. sector -- US attracts best IT engineers from around the World.

Which means, not only does Canada lose out to USA - so do other IT giants such as UK, China, India, etc.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#506

Post by perardi » Sat, May 05, 2018, 2:32 AM UTC

josephjrobison wrote: post #181

ng12 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> who are hesitant to move to USA because of immigration restrictions. Where does this perception come from? Canada has stricter immigration rules than the USA. EDIT: Specifically what I'm talking about is that Canada only allows in immigrants who are economically desirable and speak English or French.

Kinda unrelated to immigration, but I've heard Canadian border patrol is actually more harsh than American border control. Anyone with experience that can verify?

I am constantly hopping back and forth between Chicago and Toronto to be with my boyfriend. I have never been seriously questioned on either side, though I think I get a slight bit more side eye on the U.S. side when I mention the same-sex partner thing. But I could be projecting.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

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Post by spoonie » Sat, May 05, 2018, 2:35 AM UTC

Kelbit wrote: post #179

jboy55 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the problems is the public demands a lower risk investment. A single Theranos would knee cap the entire VC industry in Canada. "How could this be allowed to happen?!" The stories of LPs losing their $50k investments would lead the newspapers for months. In Silicon Valley its a, 'Oh that sucks, but the smart money stayed away, that should have been a tell for the other investors".

That already happened, to a degree. Canada's dot-com darling was Nortel, which at peak accounted for 1/3 of the total valuation on the Toronto Stock Exchange. Then the bubble burst and Nortel collapsed. A lot of institutional investors swore off tech after that, and it hasn't really rebounded.

Nortel was an actual fraud though, as well as collapsing as a company. Changing financial reporting rules could prevent another Nortel-style fraud.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#508

Post by throwaway928439 » Sat, May 05, 2018, 2:42 AM UTC

Doesn't U.S. immigration get in the way? Or is everyone trying their luck on a TN Visa?

The job postings that indicate visa assistance are the exception, rather than the rule.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#509

Post by hn_throwaway_99 » Sat, May 05, 2018, 2:56 AM UTC

privacypoller wrote: post #98

Kluny wrote: post #56

Canadian here. I get $65,000 USD from my remote American job. That's low enough that people on this forum snicker at me, and high enough that companies in the "tech town" that I live in physically wince when I tell them my salary expectation. I'd rather work locally, but what can I do?

And you're in Victoria? that's not a cheap place to live, especially if you're considering buying a home. That companies think you're paid highly for your area is kind of this entire problem in a nutshell.

I'm curious, though, what professions are being able to avoid all these high cost areas in Canada?

Vancouver, Toronto, Victoria - while not SF or NYC cost of living, they are still really expensive and their programming salaries appear to be 50% at best of comparable salaries in major US tech centers. Are other professions in Canada doing better? Are the only people who can afford the real estate people that just owned real estate previously and rich foreigners?

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

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Post by sesutton » Sat, May 05, 2018, 3:00 AM UTC

JibJabLab wrote: post #211

Kluny wrote: post #56

Canadian here. I get $65,000 USD from my remote American job. That's low enough that people on this forum snicker at me, and high enough that companies in the "tech town" that I live in physically wince when I tell them my salary expectation. I'd rather work locally, but what can I do?

I really don't understand that. There's so many places across the U.S. where that's very decent money. Anyone who says otherwise is living in some kind of bubble. Exceptions would be if you're living in cities.

No need to exclude most cities that aren't NYC or SF.