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Households Need to Earn $300,000 a Year to Live a Middle Class Lifestyle

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Re: Households Need to Earn $300,000 a Year to Live a Middle Class Lifestyle

#61

Post by black6 »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #11

Middle-class is such a meaningless term now. US median household income is about $60K, that is the middle of the income distribution.

Middle-class is a function of outlook, not of income, occupation, or status. Future preference, self-discipline, social conformity, infinitely expandable material demand, and a general emphasis on externalized impersonal values are the attributes of someone in the middle class (from Carroll Quigley's 'Tragedy and Hope' from which an excerpt on the middle class can be found here: https://pastebin.com/raw/6iFPbQdp)

Re: Households Need to Earn $300,000 a Year to Live a Middle Class Lifestyle

#62

Post by trustno1 »

hacknat wrote: post #59
trustno1 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, more elitism from the Valley folk. If you were to leave your bubble for a bit, you’d find any significant urban area offers the same benefit: Chicago, NYC, Boston, etc.

With about the same cost of living. I don’t think he was referencing those cities when he said “Nowhereville”.

Chicago is very cheap.

Re: Households Need to Earn $300,000 a Year to Live a Middle Class Lifestyle

#63

Post by taneq »

tsunamifury wrote: post #8

I think we should come up for a new term for working high income households, something like a "City class". They make between 250-699k. They have mostly what they need but work very hard and aren't the leisure or power class that is associated with the upper. They don't have or really identify with the same money problems as the true middle class but they certainly don't have enough to spend frivioisly. They give up…

"Rich" vs. "wealthy"?

Re: Households Need to Earn $300,000 a Year to Live a Middle Class Lifestyle

#64

Post by dustycowboy »

cimmanom wrote: post #3

Because this article completely misdefines "middle class"? Being middle class doesn't mean you can afford absolutely everything you want. It just means you're financially secure enough not to have to choose between food, clothing, shelter, and healthcare with every paycheck, and to be able to save up a buffer in case of emergency. Example: $2100/mo to feed 3 people is ridiculous. Instead of buying prepared foods, coo…

The problem is that there's not one definition of middle class. Most Americans think that they're middle class, whether they make $22k or $200k: https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-america-divided/midd...

Everyone lives inside their own social bubbles and think that their lifestyle is average. In this bubble, vacations to Europe every year are normal; "Everyone" send their kids to private school, dines out three times a week etc.

Re: Households Need to Earn $300,000 a Year to Live a Middle Class Lifestyle

#65

Post by graeme »

harryh wrote: post #20
mratzloff wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$2100/mo to feed 3 people is ridiculous. You can feed 3 people on $750/mo. $700/mo/person is $7.65 per meal, which is quite reasonable. $250/mo/person is about $2.70 per meal, which is not. "In 2005, sociologists William Thompson and Joseph Hickey estimate an income range of roughly $35,000 to $75,000 for the lower middle class and $100,000 or more for the upper middle class."[0] In 2018 dollars, that's $44,800 to $9…

$250/mo/person is about $2.70 per meal, which is not It's plenty. I just looked at my mint. I've averaged $678/month on groceries for my 3 person family over the last year. One of those 3 people is a toddler so I'm obviously saving some money there. We eat out occasionally (so not part of this budget item) but rarely more than once a week. And I'm not in a position where I have to scrimp. My wife and I had lobster la…

Do you live in a coastal city and work a professional level job that pay $150,000 and requires intense hours at the office? And does your partner as well?

An assumption in the article was that both parents were too busy with work to cook reliably.

I agree it's plenty for most households. Just may not be for the households this author is talking about. It's a good illustration of how a higher paid job may not net that much more: you lose a lot of the income in extra taxes + extra lifestyle expenses to support the job.

Re: Households Need to Earn $300,000 a Year to Live a Middle Class Lifestyle

#66

Post by URSpider94 »

chomp wrote: post #51
sethammons wrote: post #19

I think the key here was costal living in economic hubs. I was looking a little while back to see if I should move closer to work to reduce my super commute. For the same price as a stucco 1000sqft house with near zero yard, bars on the windows, graffiti on the building with a homeless person sleeping on the sidewalk, and being right next to the freeway, you can pick up a house literally 3 to 6x larger on 10 acres in…

Yes but I live in Houston which is coastal, and I guarantee you can live like a king on much less than this. I have a 3k SQ ft home that I'm paying $1500/mo on, and that includes interest and escrowed taxes.

Houston is on a coast, but it’s not “coastal”. In this context, coastal means being on the Atlantic or Pacific Seaboard,

Re: Households Need to Earn $300,000 a Year to Live a Middle Class Lifestyle

#67

Post by true_religion »

ryandrake wrote: post #22
sanderjd wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are tons of places with great opportunity for that tech worker and non-absurd cost of living. I understand ambitious people wanting to stay in the Bay Area where all the tippy-top jobs are, but there are very good jobs elsewhere. You're just much less likely to become a billionaire or a top executive or a well known name in the industry outside the Bay Area. But again, that isn't a middle class sort of concern.

Living in the Bay Area is not just about access to tippy top tech companies. It's about limiting risk. Say I'm living in Nowhereville, USA, and working for the tech company there. If anything goes wrong, for example, an overall tech downturn, this company hits hard times, or I have a job-ending disagreement with my boss, then getting a new job likely means a 6+ month job search, uprooting my family and moving. I know…

That's true, but it would be better to compare the Bay to other cities. DC for example has a robust economy, great culture, better weather than new York, and home prices 1/3rd of the Bay when looking at the surrounding suburbs.

Re: Households Need to Earn $300,000 a Year to Live a Middle Class Lifestyle

#68

Post by owlsaway »

mratzloff wrote: post #10
cimmanom wrote: post #3

Because this article completely misdefines "middle class"? Being middle class doesn't mean you can afford absolutely everything you want. It just means you're financially secure enough not to have to choose between food, clothing, shelter, and healthcare with every paycheck, and to be able to save up a buffer in case of emergency. Example: $2100/mo to feed 3 people is ridiculous. Instead of buying prepared foods, coo…

$2100/mo to feed 3 people is ridiculous. You can feed 3 people on $750/mo. $700/mo/person is $7.65 per meal, which is quite reasonable. $250/mo/person is about $2.70 per meal, which is not. "In 2005, sociologists William Thompson and Joseph Hickey estimate an income range of roughly $35,000 to $75,000 for the lower middle class and $100,000 or more for the upper middle class."[0] In 2018 dollars, that's $44,800 to $9…

I'm a 20-something college student currently trying to strike a balance between eating out, cooking, and pre-cooked meals. My grocery costs have ranged between 300CAD and 500CAD, with the 500CAD occurring when I get lazy and eat out far more often than I feel I should.

I find it interesting that 500CAD (~400USD) is completely unreasonable to me (I frequently get frustrated with myself for spending this much when I know I could get it down lower if I stop eating out), whereas your 'reasonable' ceiling is much, much higher.

This isn't even taking into account the cost savings of cooking for multiple people, vs. cooking for one person, too! Per person costs will definitely change depending on context.

Re: Households Need to Earn $300,000 a Year to Live a Middle Class Lifestyle

#69

Post by jeffdavis »

kristianc wrote: post #12
ohiovr wrote: post #2

I’m not middle class but if you are thrifty and can prioritize freedom over needless expenses ie $5 cup of coffee it isn’t hard to live very comfortably in many parts of the usa. I understand owning property at all can be much more challenging in europe than it is in much of the usa mainland. Coastland and island living is going to be more expensive for various reasons.

> I’m not middle class but if you are thrifty and can prioritize freedom over needless expenses ie $5 cup of coffee I'm not sure how the $5 cup of coffee became the symbol of financial irresponsibility. An apartment in Midtown NYC runs about $4k a month. LIC is $2.2k. Yet for some reason we blame the coffee.

In different places different frivilous things make sense. In high-rent, high-income cities, $5 coffee isn't going to have a financial impact but a walk-in closet is ridiculous. In other areas, the opposite is true.
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