Middle-class is such a meaningless term now. US median household income is about $60K, that is the middle of the income distribution.
Households Need to Earn $300,000 a Year to Live a Middle Class Lifestyle
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Re: Households Need to Earn $300,000 a Year to Live a Middle Class Lifestyle
#12I’m not middle class but if you are thrifty and can prioritize freedom over needless expenses ie $5 cup of coffee it isn’t hard to live very comfortably in many parts of the usa. I understand owning property at all can be much more challenging in europe than it is in much of the usa mainland. Coastland and island living is going to be more expensive for various reasons.
> I’m not middle class but if you are thrifty and can prioritize freedom over needless expenses ie $5 cup of coffee
I'm not sure how the $5 cup of coffee became the symbol of financial irresponsibility. An apartment in Midtown NYC runs about $4k a month. LIC is $2.2k. Yet for some reason we blame the coffee.
Re: Households Need to Earn $300,000 a Year to Live a Middle Class Lifestyle
#13Because this article completely misdefines "middle class"? Being middle class doesn't mean you can afford absolutely everything you want. It just means you're financially secure enough not to have to choose between food, clothing, shelter, and healthcare with every paycheck, and to be able to save up a buffer in case of emergency. Example: $2100/mo to feed 3 people is ridiculous. Instead of buying prepared foods, coo…
Agreed. Also, start with: don't live in one of the most expensive cities in the world and expect luxuries not typically associated with urban living, such as two cars, a spacious home, etc.
Not a choice you actually have for many careers.
Re: Households Need to Earn $300,000 a Year to Live a Middle Class Lifestyle
#14Because this article completely misdefines "middle class"? Being middle class doesn't mean you can afford absolutely everything you want. It just means you're financially secure enough not to have to choose between food, clothing, shelter, and healthcare with every paycheck, and to be able to save up a buffer in case of emergency. Example: $2100/mo to feed 3 people is ridiculous. Instead of buying prepared foods, coo…
300 k is ridiculous, but in the coastal regions I would not be surprised if a family of 4 needs 200-250 to feel financially secure.
As a family of 4 who just left the SF Bay area making what you call secure. I can assure you we did not feel secure and were living paycheck to paycheck on that amount.
Re: Households Need to Earn $300,000 a Year to Live a Middle Class Lifestyle
#15Because this article completely misdefines "middle class"? Being middle class doesn't mean you can afford absolutely everything you want. It just means you're financially secure enough not to have to choose between food, clothing, shelter, and healthcare with every paycheck, and to be able to save up a buffer in case of emergency. Example: $2100/mo to feed 3 people is ridiculous. Instead of buying prepared foods, coo…
You’re not wrong. But you’re also attributing choice to things that may not be choice. In your description, if a tech worker wants a cheaper lifestyle and larger living space then they should move away from basically the only places they can find those highest paying careers. There are exceptions, but they are not numerous enough to dismiss that current prices exceed many explanations and leave many people wanting. A…
There are tons of places with great opportunity for that tech worker and non-absurd cost of living. I understand ambitious people wanting to stay in the Bay Area where all the tippy-top jobs are, but there are very good jobs elsewhere. You're just much less likely to become a billionaire or a top executive or a well known name in the industry outside the Bay Area. But again, that isn't a middle class sort of concern.
Re: Households Need to Earn $300,000 a Year to Live a Middle Class Lifestyle
#16Because this article completely misdefines "middle class"? Being middle class doesn't mean you can afford absolutely everything you want. It just means you're financially secure enough not to have to choose between food, clothing, shelter, and healthcare with every paycheck, and to be able to save up a buffer in case of emergency. Example: $2100/mo to feed 3 people is ridiculous. Instead of buying prepared foods, coo…
You’re not wrong. But you’re also attributing choice to things that may not be choice. In your description, if a tech worker wants a cheaper lifestyle and larger living space then they should move away from basically the only places they can find those highest paying careers. There are exceptions, but they are not numerous enough to dismiss that current prices exceed many explanations and leave many people wanting. A…
Either you have denser housing near jobs with impact on living space or you have longer commutes.
Re: Households Need to Earn $300,000 a Year to Live a Middle Class Lifestyle
#17Re: Households Need to Earn $300,000 a Year to Live a Middle Class Lifestyle
#18I’m not middle class but if you are thrifty and can prioritize freedom over needless expenses ie $5 cup of coffee it isn’t hard to live very comfortably in many parts of the usa. I understand owning property at all can be much more challenging in europe than it is in much of the usa mainland. Coastland and island living is going to be more expensive for various reasons.
> I’m not middle class but if you are thrifty and can prioritize freedom over needless expenses ie $5 cup of coffee I'm not sure how the $5 cup of coffee became the symbol of financial irresponsibility. An apartment in Midtown NYC runs about $4k a month. LIC is $2.2k. Yet for some reason we blame the coffee.
Probably a carryover from the time where upscale coffee was relatively new to the urban cores and developed some social status, but before you could buy decent coffee almost anywhere in the country (90's to early 2000's?) It was a clearly frivolous pleasure. Neee caffeine? Folgers is cheap.
Re: Households Need to Earn $300,000 a Year to Live a Middle Class Lifestyle
#19I think the key here was costal living in economic hubs. I was looking a little while back to see if I should move closer to work to reduce my super commute. For the same price as a stucco 1000sqft house with near zero yard, bars on the windows, graffiti on the building with a homeless person sleeping on the sidewalk, and being right next to the freeway, you can pick up a house literally 3 to 6x larger on 10 acres in Montana that looks like it is out of a story book. It costs much, much more to live close to the economic-hub costal cities.
Re: Households Need to Earn $300,000 a Year to Live a Middle Class Lifestyle
#20Because this article completely misdefines "middle class"? Being middle class doesn't mean you can afford absolutely everything you want. It just means you're financially secure enough not to have to choose between food, clothing, shelter, and healthcare with every paycheck, and to be able to save up a buffer in case of emergency. Example: $2100/mo to feed 3 people is ridiculous. Instead of buying prepared foods, coo…
$2100/mo to feed 3 people is ridiculous. You can feed 3 people on $750/mo. $700/mo/person is $7.65 per meal, which is quite reasonable. $250/mo/person is about $2.70 per meal, which is not. "In 2005, sociologists William Thompson and Joseph Hickey estimate an income range of roughly $35,000 to $75,000 for the lower middle class and $100,000 or more for the upper middle class."[0] In 2018 dollars, that's $44,800 to $9…
$250/mo/person is about $2.70 per meal, which is not
It's plenty. I just looked at my mint. I've averaged $678/month on groceries for my 3 person family over the last year. One of those 3 people is a toddler so I'm obviously saving some money there. We eat out occasionally (so not part of this budget item) but rarely more than once a week. And I'm not in a position where I have to scrimp. My wife and I had lobster last night.
2.70 doesn't sound like much if by "meal" you think of "dinner" but it's a ton if you're eating eggs or cereal for breakfast and a sandwich for lunch.